Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:
Lugnut wrote:
once you get used to fast on a motorcycle, fast in a car just seems like a lot of noise with no real results.
^this^
A 15 year old 600cc sport bike is faster than anything with 4 wheels and a license plate this side of super car territory and even then - it's only marginal. A modern liter bike is mind blurring on the level of DSR or CSR race car.
When I think fast - it's bikes, shifter carts and real race cars (not tin tops).
The guy I work with has a liter bike - the first year of ZX10R, before they moved the exhaust up under the seat (which makes him point out that he was REALLY glad he bought when he did, every time the subject comes up) and nothing on four wheels feels very fast to him.
I can kind of see his point. By the time you get a car to the point where it can out-accelerate it in the effortless-speed, accidentally doing 140 sense, the car won't hook up on the street below 100mph and is generally badly compromised against good manners.
At the same time it is pretty sad. He's left it stock because it is far more performance than he can ever want to use, so why modify it? The logic is there, but I can't fathom the concept of not modifying something...
One of the reasons I love my Miata is that I can drive really fast, have lots of fun and not break the speed limit and no one but me knows! The RX8 on the other can get me in serious legal difficulty with no drama, still lots of fun but of a different order.
I agree its more a perception of speed,beating on a slow car can be loads more fun then a truly fast car 90% of the time.Available grip makes a big difference to that perception as well.
My old modded FZ1 bike wasn't the fastest bike by quite a stretch but would pull and hold the front a foot off the ground to just shy of 100mph,good fun and still pulled harder from there to 150mph than most cars do 0-60.
I would rather have a slow fun car than a fast car capable of matching that bike.
I thought we were talking about fast, not fun.
Fun and fast are often mutually exclusive. Fun makes you smile and giggle uncontrollably, fast causes your brain to reboot and you don't have time to have any fun.
Thus Keith Tanner's comment about the second time not being fast anymore...
12's are quick for a streetcar, but id consider 10.99 or better fast. with the current turbo technology its getting more common to see 8/9 second street cars. Current;y i own nothing fast or even quick!
In reply to Knurled:
I'd rather have fun than have fast.
I once knew a girl who was considerd fast.
Knurled wrote:
I thought we were talking about fast, not fun.
Fun and fast are often mutually exclusive. Fun makes you smile and giggle uncontrollably, fast causes your brain to reboot and you don't have time to have any fun.
Thus Keith Tanner's comment about the second time not being fast anymore...
Fair enough,every time I upgraded from one bike to the next bigger size I thought they were fast.The bigger the step the longer the adjusting period,the longest being 3 days before that wore off.
The 1st day with my 1st truly fast big bore bike and I had millenium falcon kinda tunnel vision...your right about the terrifying not being so fun.Had to do it again and again to check though.
My Beta 520 is quick because with my 140lb body on it, going up a sand wash at 70mph it will easily spin the rear tire..........on pavement the 0-60 4.2 seconds doesn't feel quite as fast. The 235lb 80hp TZ250, with my then super skinny 115lb frame on board, I once rode at Willow Springs was fast or at least until the Muzzy Kawasaki Superbikes blew past. I was going 150 down the back stretch and that Kawi must have been going at least 30 mph faster and yet it was so much slower than the 500cc GP Yamaha I saw run there.
To David's point my D-Sports Racer felt fast the first couple of runs but then it seemed normal, it would out accelerate standard Vipers in open practice.
If I have to set some numbers I'd say 2.5 seconds 0-60, at least 9 second 1/4 and 160 mph top speed. As for handling numbers I'd say at least 2Gs and the same for the brakes.........our DSR pulled 3Gs under braking, that always seemed pretty impressive.
Finally for a subjective gauge; anything that can get loads of wheel spin at 130, MotoGP bike Sprint car etc, anything that pulls enough lateral Gs that requires neck exercises to drive it regular, anything that pushes the air out of you lungs on the brakes.............carrier landings qualify.
Tom
To me a fast car is simply anything that gives a definitive kick in the back when I hit the go pedal.
Another way to define fast is like this... You are traveling 80mph on the interstate and kinda bored. It's a long drive... You suddenly notice the road has completely iced and all the cars in front of you are stopped.
All of a sudden... your going FAST 
Anyone can go as fast or as quick in anything...
until the objective is to do it one a short road with lots of intentionally complicated turns, that ends where it begins.
For my references fast is under 2 minutes at VIR. Under 1'15" at Summit Point. You either need a kajillion horsepower or the stupidest amount of lateral grip and zero weight.
I did a 1'12.897" at Summit a couple weeks ago. There's a bunch of places where the car is capable of going much faster than I'm confident going. Places where you're going ~really~ fast, like if you needed another 6" at corner exit you be off the end of turn 9 and in the tires or woods doing well over 100.
That's fast. Doing 1'26's in my M3 is right at the cars limit, but it doesn't feel fast anymore.
