Travis_K wrote: I know that's cheap for a tdi, but that's the same price for any 4 cylinder complete enough for a swap, or it goes in the crusher, they dont much care one way or the other. By a drag race between a 350 and 454 powered truck I was thinking like actual 1/4 mile time, id be quite surprised if a 70s 454 truck was any faster than a 350 powered one.
do that race with an 18 foot car trailer with a 4000 pound car on it and see which one wins..
Vigo wrote: I personally really like the feel of 4.8s anyway. Enough low-rpm torque to be satisfying, but more entertaining in high rpms vs the 5.3. They just have a more progressive powerband that i like.
Seems like it would be a really good fit for a C4 Corvette. Both the 4.8s and C4s are super cheap, and the C4 needs a revvier engine than the TPI. Unfortunately, I don't have the time and money to buy another C4, put a 4.8 in the C4, and the TPI in the truck. Although it is fun to daydream about.
In reply to MadScientistMatt:
get more time. get more money. do both swaps.
Kenny_McCormic wrote: In reply to Travis_K: Move out of the PRC, though Subaru and modern VW stuff pulls a premium everywhere. In the Detroit metro area, a 4.8/5.3 is ~$450 from a salvage yard tested as good. At the big picknpull(3 locations), parts galore, $346.25 for any complete V8 minus accessories with a warranty. And Ive seen LS truck engines in there more than once.
God bless Detroit.
patgizz wrote: fix your carb so it runs right
We have a winner!!!
Swaps are fun, but your issues can easily be solved by some simple tuning.
tuna55 wrote:patgizz wrote: fix your carb so it runs rightWe have a winner!!! Swaps are fun, but your issues can easily be solved by some simple tuning.
There's no amount of carb tuning that will fix my biggest problem: A starter mounting pad that's broken off the block.
MadScientistMatt wrote:tuna55 wrote:There's no amount of carb tuning that will fix my biggest problem: A starter mounting pad that's broken off the block.patgizz wrote: fix your carb so it runs rightWe have a winner!!! Swaps are fun, but your issues can easily be solved by some simple tuning.
A cracked 350 block is like finding that your water glass is empty. Finding another 350 shortblock should be easier than finding your kitchen sink, and swapping smallblock->smallblock by yourself with a hoist should take you like an hour.
MadScientistMatt wrote:tuna55 wrote:There's no amount of carb tuning that will fix my biggest problem: A starter mounting pad that's broken off the block.patgizz wrote: fix your carb so it runs rightWe have a winner!!! Swaps are fun, but your issues can easily be solved by some simple tuning.
BTDT, tried every kind of fix. Bought another 4-bolt, rebuild w/ .030 over. For what I had in it go w/ the LS
fasted58 wrote:MadScientistMatt wrote:BTDT, tried every kind of fix. Bought another 4-bolt, rebuild w/ .030 over. For what I had in it go w/ the LStuna55 wrote:There's no amount of carb tuning that will fix my biggest problem: A starter mounting pad that's broken off the block.patgizz wrote: fix your carb so it runs rightWe have a winner!!! Swaps are fun, but your issues can easily be solved by some simple tuning.
No doubt any variant of the GEN III or gen IV engines is superior in every way in terms of performance. I was just speaking to the general ease and performance of what's there already. Millions of those engines are still plodding along, without irritating their owners or causing headaches. We're not adding power or adding mileage as a goal - may as well stick with what's there.
In reply to tuna55:
I wasn't speaking of tuning, my 350 engine starter pad broke off too, there was no salvaging it. 
fasted58 wrote: In reply to tuna55: I wasn't speaking of tuning, my 350 engine starter pad broke off too, there was no salvaging it.
Weird - I've owned a bunch of those things, and swapped many a starter, and never cracked one there.
In reply to tuna55:
+1 this us the exact reason why when I swap engines in my Camaro, a Gen I SBC will go back in it, because it will fall right in, I can re use all my accessories, and it's still ultimately cheaper when you factor in all those extras.
A Gen III/IV LS engine will find it's way in there eventually, but for stage one, SBC it is, for the reasons Tuna listed.
BoostedBrandon wrote: In reply to tuna55: +1 this us the exact reason why when I swap engines in my Camaro, a Gen I SBC will go back in it, because it will fall right in, I can re use all my accessories, and it's still ultimately cheaper when you factor in all those extras. A Gen III/IV LS engine will find it's way in there eventually, but for stage one, SBC it is, for the reasons Tuna listed.
same with my c4. i can buy a $3900 warrantied 400hp/450 ft lbs 383 from blueprint and drop it right in, or i can buy a $1200 6.0 then spend 3 grand on the stuff to make it work in the car and still have a 60-100k mile engine. i'm all for ls swaps, did my impala and love it, but sometimes it's not the answer.
Paid $460 for this and dragged it to the shop today:
It's a 2007 4.8 out of a wrecked van. Came with all accessories and an uncut wiring harness.
patgizz wrote:BoostedBrandon wrote: In reply to tuna55: +1 this us the exact reason why when I swap engines in my Camaro, a Gen I SBC will go back in it, because it will fall right in, I can re use all my accessories, and it's still ultimately cheaper when you factor in all those extras. A Gen III/IV LS engine will find it's way in there eventually, but for stage one, SBC it is, for the reasons Tuna listed.same with my c4. i can buy a $3900 warrantied 400hp/450 ft lbs 383 from blueprint and drop it right in, or i can buy a $1200 6.0 then spend 3 grand on the stuff to make it work in the car and still have a 60-100k mile engine. i'm all for ls swaps, did my impala and love it, but sometimes it's not the answer.
how do you spend $3k to put a $400 engine into a car? i've priced out everything i need to get my 5.3 in my Camaro and running, and even with the $1k or so i'll be spending on the engine (those carb intakes and ignition controllers make up most of that...) i'll still be into it for less than $1500... of course, i'm not buying a $700 set of headers (using F body Camaro manifolds) and i've already made a set of motor mount adapter plates as well as the F body oil pan that came with the same blowed up LS1 as the manifolds...
Mount plates are what $60? Drill and tap for the extra bell housing hole if using an older transmission. Then its just wiring, even if you went MS it shouldn't top $2000 all said and done to shove a cheap LS where a SBC used to live. That's about what a goodwrench 350 runs isn't it? And even the 4.8 is better in every way.
later 4.8's are 295hp, 295tq. What's the best of the Gen 1's, the LT4? That made 330/340? How about with a "normal" cooling design, 255/310 from the Vortec? Do either of them rev easily to 6500 and still make power? How about fuel economy?
There's no comparison of the GenIII/IV to the Gen I/II engines.
Kenny_McCormic wrote: Mount plates are what $60?
Depends on the model you are swapping and with whom's plates.
Kenny_McCormic wrote: Drill and tap for the extra bell housing hole if using an older transmission.
Only if you want to ruin the block by drilling and cracking into the water jacket. Pass on that idea and just use 5 bolts or upgrade the trans to a LS pattern.
Kenny_McCormic wrote: Then its just wiring, even if you went MS it shouldn't top $2000 all said and done to shove a cheap LS where a SBC used to live. That's about what a goodwrench 350 runs isn't it? And even the 4.8 is better in every way.
Jugg's lists a GM long block at about $1900 plus the $200 freight charge, last time I checked. Your costs with the LS swap is always everything really attached to the engine: the electronics, fuel pumps, intakes, ECU, relocating accessories or deciding which accessory package to run, fuel lines, water pumps, etc....
mount plates are free if you have a couple of scraps of 1/8" steel laying around and a drill bit to poke 6 holes in them... maybe also a piece of cardboard and a sharpie to make a template..
the only part you need to buy to physically bolt an LS engine to an older auto trans would be the adapter/spacer to hook the old torque converter to the new flexplate... i think that part is about $100 at any GM dealer..
novaderrik wrote: how do you spend $3k to put a $400 engine into a car? i've priced out everything i need to get my 5.3 in my Camaro and running, and even with the $1k or so i'll be spending on the engine (those carb intakes and ignition controllers make up most of that...) i'll still be into it for less than $1500... of course, i'm not buying a $700 set of headers (using F body Camaro manifolds) and i've already made a set of motor mount adapter plates as well as the F body oil pan that came with the same blowed up LS1 as the manifolds...
If you can really complete an LSx swap in a 3rd gen for $1500 more power to you.
I follow a lot of 2nd gen builds and even the budget conscious folks are putting $5k+ into completed LS swaps. There are ways to control the costs like using a carb, going with an automatic and not having A/C, but still it is the little stuff that adds up.
SEADave wrote:novaderrik wrote: how do you spend $3k to put a $400 engine into a car? i've priced out everything i need to get my 5.3 in my Camaro and running, and even with the $1k or so i'll be spending on the engine (those carb intakes and ignition controllers make up most of that...) i'll still be into it for less than $1500... of course, i'm not buying a $700 set of headers (using F body Camaro manifolds) and i've already made a set of motor mount adapter plates as well as the F body oil pan that came with the same blowed up LS1 as the manifolds...If you can really complete an LSx swap in a 3rd gen for $1500 more power to you. I follow a lot of 2nd gen builds and even the budget conscious folks are putting $5k+ into completed LS swaps. There are ways to control the costs like using a carb, going with an automatic and not having A/C, but still it is the little stuff that adds up.
i'll document it.. there will be many pics..
i don't have the luxury of having much money- if i did i wouldn't be screwing around with the $100 5.3... it would be an LS9.. i've read thru a lot of LS swap threads involving many different engines into many different cars , and they sometimes (usually) get caught up in the "i gotta buy this shiny $700 part because the internet tells me to" syndrome...
SEADave wrote:novaderrik wrote: how do you spend $3k to put a $400 engine into a car? i've priced out everything i need to get my 5.3 in my Camaro and running, and even with the $1k or so i'll be spending on the engine (those carb intakes and ignition controllers make up most of that...) i'll still be into it for less than $1500... of course, i'm not buying a $700 set of headers (using F body Camaro manifolds) and i've already made a set of motor mount adapter plates as well as the F body oil pan that came with the same blowed up LS1 as the manifolds...If you can really complete an LSx swap in a 3rd gen for $1500 more power to you. I follow a lot of 2nd gen builds and even the budget conscious folks are putting $5k+ into completed LS swaps. There are ways to control the costs like using a carb, going with an automatic and not having A/C, but still it is the little stuff that adds up.
^^ This. They just did this swap on Trucks! on Spike TV. They swapped a 6.0 LQ9 for a 454 big block in a 72 C10. By their calculations, and knowing this is on a TV show budget, they had right at 5K in their project. They went as far as swapping gas tanks from a Suburban. I'm sure a GRM version of their swap would come out much less than they spent, and going with a 4.8 or 5.3 would save that much more. But would it still be cheaper than building a GEN I or II where everything is pretty much plug and play? I'd love to see a build thread on that..
06HHR wrote:SEADave wrote:^^ This. They just did this swap on Trucks! on Spike TV. They swapped a 6.0 LQ9 for a 454 big block in a 72 C10. By their calculations, and knowing this is on a TV show budget, they had right at 5K in their project. They went as far as swapping gas tanks from a Suburban. I'm sure a GRM version of their swap would come out much less than they spent, and going with a 4.8 or 5.3 would save that much more. But would it still be cheaper than building a GEN I or II where everything is pretty much plug and play? I'd love to see a build thread on that..novaderrik wrote: how do you spend $3k to put a $400 engine into a car? i've priced out everything i need to get my 5.3 in my Camaro and running, and even with the $1k or so i'll be spending on the engine (those carb intakes and ignition controllers make up most of that...) i'll still be into it for less than $1500... of course, i'm not buying a $700 set of headers (using F body Camaro manifolds) and i've already made a set of motor mount adapter plates as well as the F body oil pan that came with the same blowed up LS1 as the manifolds...If you can really complete an LSx swap in a 3rd gen for $1500 more power to you. I follow a lot of 2nd gen builds and even the budget conscious folks are putting $5k+ into completed LS swaps. There are ways to control the costs like using a carb, going with an automatic and not having A/C, but still it is the little stuff that adds up.
i saw some of that...they spent something like $700 having a few wires cut out of the harness... well, they didn't pay to have it done- the company payed tens of thousands of dollars to have them say they spent $700 having a few wires cut out of the harness... then like everything else they do on Powerblock, they sprayed everything down with WD40 and wiped it up with Scott's shop towels...
they probably also put $500 worth of AN fittings and hose in it, too...
MadScientistMatt wrote: Paid $460 for this and dragged it to the shop today:
Cool. Should we be looking to follow this on the GRM Builds section of the forum, or over on on DIY's site?
I don't see how going to a carb is going to be cheaper when the whole engine that's in this thread, EFI & Ignition & what sounds like all the wiring needed went for $460. How much is a Holley 650 and corresponding intake, new? I bet more than $460. Used, with a rebuild kit and such for the carb, I still think it'd be hard to do for much cheaper than what he did there.
I think Mr. Scientist here got a screaming deal, especially if he also got the ECU, although I understand that he may want to go with a 'squirt instead.
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