pres589 wrote: I don't see how going to a carb is going to be cheaper when the whole engine that's in this thread, EFI & Ignition & what sounds like all the wiring needed went for $460. How much is a Holley 650 and corresponding intake, new? I bet more than $460. Used, with a rebuild kit and such for the carb, I still think it'd be hard to do for much cheaper than what he did there. I think Mr. Scientist here got a screaming deal, especially if he also got the ECU, although I understand that he may want to go with a 'squirt instead.

i've already got a carb, and i might have a line on a used dual plane intake and maybe even the ignition box- apparently the LS engines are popular in the demo derby crowd due to their cheapness and bulletproof properties..

This one is going to be using an MS3 and some R&D parts. Because it's going to be a DIYAutoTune.com test mule project, I'm going to be keeping very meticulous records of what was done and what was spent.

I'll be sure to have a build thread posted somewhere - either here, on the site, or both.

Please do one here. Definately want to watch it.

In reply to novaderrik:

If you've got connections, can hoard parts a little, then I stand corrected.

If someone asked me to get the right parts rounded up I'd probably be hitting eBay as well as buying new. Probably not going to do better than just going with as much of the OEM bits the Scientist grabbed as an assembly.

novaderrik wrote:

patgizz wrote:

BoostedBrandon wrote: In reply to tuna55: +1 this us the exact reason why when I swap engines in my Camaro, a Gen I SBC will go back in it, because it will fall right in, I can re use all my accessories, and it's still ultimately cheaper when you factor in all those extras. A Gen III/IV LS engine will find it's way in there eventually, but for stage one, SBC it is, for the reasons Tuna listed.

same with my c4. i can buy a $3900 warrantied 400hp/450 ft lbs 383 from blueprint and drop it right in, or i can buy a $1200 6.0 then spend 3 grand on the stuff to make it work in the car and still have a 60-100k mile engine. i'm all for ls swaps, did my impala and love it, but sometimes it's not the answer.

how do you spend $3k to put a $400 engine into a car? i've priced out everything i need to get my 5.3 in my Camaro and running, and even with the $1k or so i'll be spending on the engine (those carb intakes and ignition controllers make up most of that...) i'll still be into it for less than $1500... of course, i'm not buying a $700 set of headers (using F body Camaro manifolds) and i've already made a set of motor mount adapter plates as well as the F body oil pan that came with the same blowed up LS1 as the manifolds...

lets see. #1 no carb.

2 headers. no factory manifolds fit

3 wiring harness modification and pcm programming(or stand alone)

4 most every car can't use a truck oil pan due to ground clearance

5 most cars can't fit a truck intake under the hood or cowl overhang(like my impala)

6 hey car intake on truck engine is perfect, except you need to relocate the idler pulley which requires a bracket, and you need to get a 2007+ truck water pump so the outlet clears the throttle body

then you know, plumbing. and all those little things you forgot about like making your dash work. those little $100 here $20 there parts add up fast.

i'm just as cheap as anyone, almost except for joey m building a car out of trash pickings. it cost me about 5 grand total to do my 5.3/4L60E install in my impala. the engine cost me $1200 and the trans cost $255

wrote:

novaderrik wrote:

patgizz wrote:

BoostedBrandon wrote: In reply to tuna55: +1 this us the exact reason why when I swap engines in my Camaro, a Gen I SBC will go back in it, because it will fall right in, I can re use all my accessories, and it's still ultimately cheaper when you factor in all those extras. A Gen III/IV LS engine will find it's way in there eventually, but for stage one, SBC it is, for the reasons Tuna listed.

same with my c4. i can buy a $3900 warrantied 400hp/450 ft lbs 383 from blueprint and drop it right in, or i can buy a $1200 6.0 then spend 3 grand on the stuff to make it work in the car and still have a 60-100k mile engine. i'm all for ls swaps, did my impala and love it, but sometimes it's not the answer.

how do you spend $3k to put a $400 engine into a car? i've priced out everything i need to get my 5.3 in my Camaro and running, and even with the $1k or so i'll be spending on the engine (those carb intakes and ignition controllers make up most of that...) i'll still be into it for less than $1500... of course, i'm not buying a $700 set of headers (using F body Camaro manifolds) and i've already made a set of motor mount adapter plates as well as the F body oil pan that came with the same blowed up LS1 as the manifolds...

lets see. #1 no carb. #2 headers. no factory manifolds fit #3 wiring harness modification and pcm programming(or stand alone) #4 most every car can't use a truck oil pan due to ground clearance #5 most cars can't fit a truck intake under the hood or cowl overhang(like my impala) #6 hey car intake on truck engine is perfect, except you need to relocate the idler pulley which requires a bracket, and you need to get a 2007+ truck water pump so the outlet clears the throttle body then you know, plumbing. and all those little things you forgot about like making your dash work. those little $100 here $20 there parts add up fast. i'm just as cheap as anyone, almost except for joey m building a car out of trash pickings. it cost me about 5 grand total to do my 5.3/4L60E install in my impala. the engine cost me $1200 and the trans cost $255

Yep. patgizz is 100% correct.

well, yeah, if you have to buy everything new it adds up fast. did you do any trading or selling off of old parts to offset the costs and do the labor yourself, or did you just whip out the Mastercard and buy everything? that makes a HUGE difference in how much these things cost..

It helps that on a C10, the truck oil pan and intake don't have any clearance problems from what I've heard, and you can even use the stock LS motor manifolds.

yep. i bought a secondhand stand alone harness and pcm for $500 less than new. got ebay headers for $400 less than name brand, did as much as i could from rock auto, made my own adapter plates, cobbled together radiator and heater hoses out of ones i had, junkyarded what i could, made everything i had the ability/tools/materials for. i even sold the truck harness that came with my engine. i attempted to get anything back out of the truck intake/rails/injectors without success and the truck pan/pickup/windage tray is still collecting dust with zero interest advertising it for the last 4 years. i even got all the new gm stuff(camaro pan and parts, water pump) from my uncle at the dealer, who paid 5% over cost. that made the pan cost less than used ones were going for at the time. i bought all that stuff in 2007 so the pump was a dealer only item being brand new to the model year. i spread the cost over a few years and bought what i could as i had extra funds. i did 100% of the labor myself. winched the engineless car in the garage and drove it out 9 months later. i don't pay anyone to do anything for me.

it can be done cheaper, like with the carb. maybe around you it's different but i have never seen a used carb intake and ignition box. i love my holleys but i also fail to see why one would carb an ls engine with the infinite tunability of the gm pcm and well thought out factory fuel injection.

if you are going to buy a new carb intake and ignition box and a carb, you can afford to buy a stand alone harness and have the computer tuned to run without the vats. or if you love wiring, you can have your way with the internets, a hand full of fuses and relays, and convert the harness that came with your engine if one did.

MadScientistMatt wrote: It helps that on a C10, the truck oil pan and intake don't have any clearance problems from what I've heard, and you can even use the stock LS motor manifolds.

yes, for your project you have the luxury of using a truck. oil pan and making exhaust work is usually a significant portion of the budget of swapping a truck ls into a car.

i'm probably going to be the first person in the history of ever to run a quadrajet on a carbed intake on an LS engine. going to weld and grind on a probably brand new intake (unless i stumble across a used one- one of my cousins is into the demo scene pretty hardcore and he's looking for me..) to make it bolt on without an adapter..

why, you ask?

1)because they are the best carb there is

b) because i've got an Edelbrock 850cfm quadrajet

III) because racecar.

four) less stuff powered by electrons to go bad.

novaderrik wrote: i'm probably going to be the first person in the history of ever to run a quadrajet on a carbed intake on an LS engine. going to weld and grind on a probably brand new intake (unless i stumble across a used one- one of my cousins is into the demo scene pretty hardcore and he's looking for me..) to make it bolt on without an adapter.. why, you ask? 1)because they are the best carb there is b) because i've got an Edelbrock 850cfm quadrajet III) because racecar. four) less stuff powered by electrons to go bad.

I approve of this plan. Video of it running when you finish please.

Quadrajet was the other option i seriously consider for my silly 4.8 swap plans. I dont know much about carbs but ive heard the q-jet CAN be tuned to be the best 'driveability/mpg' carb out there, and im comfortable farming that out to the right person if it comes back working right. The TBI would be more of a DIY-tune thing for me. I keep trying to get myself into tuning carbs, but i always end up thinking it's similar to rebuilding auto transmissions (which i DID do), in that if you're not going to do it on a semi-regular basis, it just isnt worth the effort to learn how.

I am not an expert, but the Q jet is amazing. Don't expect it to win a race against a similarly sized Holley, but it will be close if tunes right, plus it will do much better on fuel economy. I got nearly 20 with my truck with a Q jet on a 350 in a truck like that. I get 17 or so around town with my 72 GMC, even with the three speed. A good choice, if a bit unusual.

tuna55 wrote: I am not an expert, but the Q jet is amazing. Don't expect it to win a race against a similarly sized Holley, but it will be close if tunes right, plus it will do much better on fuel economy. I got nearly 20 with my truck with a Q jet on a 350 in a truck like that. I get 17 or so around town with my 72 GMC, even with the three speed. A good choice, if a bit unusual.

the only thing wrong with a quadrajet is that the oems didn't put them on their ultra hi-po engines in the musclecar days... Holley had their new 4 barrel that they wanted to have a high perf pedigree so they got them installed on all the "racey" factory cars, with the quadrajet being stuck to the more pedestrian models.. but it is what was used by Buick on the GS/GSX, so there's that...

Looking into swap mounts, and there doesn't seem to be anything off the shelf that can do all the following at once:

1. Keep the bellhousing flange in the stock location so I don't have to extend the driveshaft or alter the transmission crossmember.
2. Keep the stock low mounted truck A/C compressor that's on the motor I have.
3. Bolt right in without needing any welding.

There are some bolt in kits I've seen on the market, but they typically either require a high mounted compressor or move the engine 3" forward.

If DIYAutoTune.com built a set of bolt in mounts for using the truck A/C compressor, and could get the pricing reasonable (under $125), would anyone here be interested?

i used these to test fit a 5.3 in a b body and they kept the bellhousing in the stock location

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LS1-Conversion-Motor-Mount-Adapter-Plates-LS6-5-3-6-0-/251296125614?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a826a92ae&vxp=mtr

i would think there is room for the truck compressor, no? i think you need to trim the back of the bracket for the compressor but it will clear the mount. there is info somewhere that i will look for later about it.

patgizz wrote: i used these to test fit a 5.3 in a b body and they kept the bellhousing in the stock location http://www.ebay.com/itm/LS1-Conversion-Motor-Mount-Adapter-Plates-LS6-5-3-6-0-/251296125614?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a826a92ae&vxp=mtr i would think there is room for the truck compressor, no? i think you need to trim the back of the bracket for the compressor but it will clear the mount. there is info somewhere that i will look for later about it.

Not quite - this guy posts up what it took to get that design to clear.

Big motor mount discussion on 67-72 Chevy Truck forum

He ends up welding a metal plate to the ear on the K-member:

I'm envisioning a plate similar to his final design, plus a bolt on plate to attach to the mounting ear.

Does moving the motor 3" forward still preclude using the truck ac compressor?

Vigo wrote: Does moving the motor 3" forward still preclude using the truck ac compressor?

No, I just would prefer to have the engine in the stock location to avoid having to extend the driveshaft and modify the transmission crossmember.

I think that's reasonable but i will still point out that getting the driveshaft extended and moving the crossmember diy for $0 probably still ends up cheaper than $125 so i would need some good evidence of a market before i designed mount plates with ambitions of reselling them.

Now if you would ALSO have to do irritating mods to shift linkage, a/c lines, cooler lines, PS lines, etc, than it becomes an obvious win for the custom mount plates.

id probably be interested.

also, while youre at it, ake a solution to hook a tv cable for a 200r4 to the ls, so i can buy it as a package.

Dusterbd13 wrote: id probably be interested. also, while youre at it, ake a solution to hook a tv cable for a 200r4 to the ls, so i can buy it as a package.

i was thinking about this the other day for some reason... i came up with an idea to hook the tv cable to the gas pedal- it's just a matter of figuring out the geometry of where you'd need to hook the cable to the pedal to get the proper travel... i was inspired by the stock kickdown cable setup in my 74 Monte Carlo that went to the pedal instead of the carb...

things might get tricky if you are running a DBW setup, tho..

I still think it is kinda funny that dodges solution to hooking up the TV cable on diesels was to put an electric motor on the trans to move the lever.. I dont know why that's funny to me, but it is.

That truck compressor is probably a variable vane one and needs more control than just an on/off switch. Probably not worth moving an engine around to keep it.

I'll be mounting up one of my 5.3s in something with a 200r4 and economaster 450 carb on the edelbrock manifold. Since I got the engine for $150, the carb NOS on evilbay for $25, and the trans for $150, I'm only into the combo for just over $900. The intake came with throttle brackets for the TTV cable too.