What non-Ford transmissions can mount up to a SBF bolt pattern?

I'm thinking I'm going to end up with a Megasquirt or something similar controlling the LS4.9 as I will need something that can control the E4OD trans behind it.

But I was also thinking, I'm going to end up building a new engine for this (after I get the head running on the existing engine) and when I do that I would probably want to beef up the transmission while I do that.  If I'm doing that, why even work with the E4OD?  Is there a better truck trans out there that would mount to the SBF bolt pattern?  I'm sure there's an adapter kit for damn near anything, but I need to know what to look for first.

I'll do light towing with this, and I'm not 100% sure on what the HP level will be for the engine, but it'll probably get boost one of these days.

Edit: I'm leaning towards an auto for this discussion as a manual doesn't need as much of a computer control and that would lead towards other options than MS

As far as I can tell, Ford didn't really get into the game of sourcing many of their engines to other marques, and when they did they usually came with the transmission.  That is to say, I don't know of anything other than FoMoCo transmissions that came with an SBF pattern.  I could be wrong.  When I say that, I know that Ford sourced Borg Warner/Tremec/ZF manual boxes but that's a common practice.  Most manufacturers don't make their own manuals, they just buy from someone else and make the bellhousing and clutch parts to work with it.

There were very few medium duty applications that used an SBF (most used BBF), but you might get lucky at a bus junkyard and find an SAE adapter bolted on the back.  It's a longshot, but that opens you up to some non-Ford options.

How heavy duty do you want, and is manual on the table?  E4OD is no slouch, especially when built properly

With manuals you can usually find a Ford bell housing and input shaft.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

How heavy duty do you want, and is manual on the table?  E4OD is no slouch, especially when built properly

Manual is always on the table, but I started a thread on that at some point and now I'm halfway thinking that I might want to stick with an auto?  Traffic around here does suck, and my knee is starting to do weird stuff.
Part of it is also the realization that modern cars get such good gas mileage and power delivery because of the increased amount of gears from just 3 standard gears and the OD of an E4OD.  Increasing the gear count and dropping the final OD gear even further will allow for an increased final gear of the differential.

ZF S5-42 5 speed (truck trans), both 2wd and 4wd versions, bolt directly to a Ford 289/302/351W...provided you can find one. Be careful, many of them came in diesel trucks, those have the wrong bellhousing. But many came in F250's in the late 80 - early 90s with small block Ford motors.

I found a 4x4 version (extended tailhousing) and put it behind a 351W in my '71 Bronco. 

Okay, weird one...

The 97 through 2002 camaro v6 used a WC t5 Trans.  The Trans has the "Ford" bolt pattern on the Trans side and should work with any Ford bell housing.  However, it has a Chevy input and output shaft.

I don't think this is necessarily helpful for what you are doing, but maybe it will get the creativity flowing.

The T5 was used in Mustangs and T-birds as well behind the 5.0L.  Manuals are often relatively universal with some changes, especially BW/Tremec.  The T5 and T56 were used in multiple brands of vehicles.  The center case was all the same across the board and all the gearsets, shafts, and bearings interchange with very few exceptions.  The differences were front plate, output housing, and input/output shafts.  I currently have a T56 from a Viper that I had converted with a GM input shaft, front plate, and tail housing (I kept the huge viper output shaft and they bored out the GM tail to hold a viper yoke)  It's hard to find a BW/Tremec box that can't be converted to any of the big three.

Mr_Asa, what's your rear ratio, and what cam will you be using?  Lower RPM isn't always better.  You'll want to likely set up your cruise RPM in between peak VE and peak torque.  Going too low causes lugging which can make hot pistons.  It also drops your RPM too far below the torque peak meaning you're using more "foot" to maintain speed.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

Current rear ratio is 3-nothin, so you can see why I'd want to bump that.

"What cam" is a great question, and one I hope to have an answer for.  I've been focused on getting the head and intake done and haven't started planning the engine build yet.  Probably start with a very basic RV cam, or even the stock one after it has been clocked properly.

C4, lol. 
I doubt you're looking for a 3 speed though. 

For a few years the Lincoln MKVII came with a BMW M20 diesel.  What transmission did those use?  Was it BMW or Ford? 

Sonic said:

For a few years the Lincoln MKVII came with a BMW M20 diesel.  What transmission did those use?  Was it BMW or Ford? 

It came with the same ZF 4HP22 as was in the BMW.  You don't want an 80s ZF automatic.  It wasn't up to handling the 114 hp of the diesel.  Servos were weak, pistons galled, and the clutches had a pathetic skim-coat of friction material on them.  It was designed as a compact fuel saver, so clutch diameter was small, and they tried to compensate by adding more/thinner clutches.  Didn't work out so great.

Ok, throwing out a dumb idea (but not a cheap one).  E4OD or C6 with a Gear Vendors?  choose a rear ratio with the OD to get you the RPMs you want on the highway and you can set it up to just automatically kick in at a certain speed, use it as a splitter (probably not needed with the broad torque curve you'll have) or you can put it in a manual mode with a foot switch to control it when you want it.

Edit to add... I think you might be fighting a battle you don't need to.  The broader the torque curve, the fewer gears you need.  I think your torque curve will be shaped like the Bonneville salt flats, so close ratios or more ratios may not be what you need.  I built a few Caddy 500s that I backed with a 2-speed Powerglide and 2.73 gears.  They cruised at 1800 rpms and still roasted 255mm rubber.  In those situations, having nearly 600 lb-ft jsut off idle meant that the 5-ish-to-1 final drive in first didn't matter because you couldn't keep the rubber from melting anyway.   I built one for a C30 dually pickup and it was happy as a clam towing 10k lbs with a TH400 and 3.08s on 32" tires.  

I'm not suggesting that you will have Caddy-level torque, I'm just saying that more ratios with narrower splits is best on vehicles that have a limited RPM range where they make oomph, like a cammed-up 5.0L, or a 2.5L 4-cyl.  In a high-RPM motor where the torque peaks high, you need more/narrower ratios so that you don't fall too far below the torque peak when you upshift.  If your torque curve is flat and wide, you can take a bigger RPM hit per shift and still be in the beef of the torque production.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

The broader the torque curve, the fewer gears you need.  I think your torque curve will be shaped like the Bonneville salt flats, so close ratios or more ratios may not be what you need.

I'm just saying that more ratios with narrower splits is best on vehicles that have a limited RPM range where they make oomph.

One of my thoughts behind this is less about being in the power band, more about dropping RPMs wherever necessary.  If I can drop 500-1000RPMs at cruising by switching to a transmission with one more gear, then why not go with that if it doesn't take much work?

In reply to Mr_Asa :

5th gear (OD) on the ZF is 0.77 : 1

Mr_Asa said:

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

The broader the torque curve, the fewer gears you need.  I think your torque curve will be shaped like the Bonneville salt flats, so close ratios or more ratios may not be what you need.

I'm just saying that more ratios with narrower splits is best on vehicles that have a limited RPM range where they make oomph.

One of my thoughts behind this is less about being in the power band, more about dropping RPMs wherever necessary.  If I can drop 500-1000RPMs at cruising by switching to a transmission with one more gear, then why not go with that if it doesn't take much work?

I know what you're saying, but too much drop (putting you too far below torque peak and peak VE... or more simply put, dropping cruise RPM below the power band) will cost you fuel.  The LS6/LQ9 and T56 I'm building with fully CNC ported heads and a 234/242 cam will likely give me the best MPG if I gear it for about 2250-2300 cruise RPM.  If I drop it lower than that, I'm using more foot to maintain speed because I've dropped RPMs to a point where I'm not making as much torque.  For that reason I'm likely using 4.56 gears (the OD in the T56 is 0.50:1).  In truth, I don't really need all 6 ratios.  5 would be fine given the light-ish weight of the vehicle and having the benefit of 6.0L of displacement making plenty of torque all over the place, and in fact a 5-speed might be faster since I would be spending one fewer shifts where I waste a half second with the clutch in, but I won't be towing or racing with it and T56 is the easy button.

What I'm saying is, dropping 500-1000 rpms at cruise is only good if it puts you at the proper RPM for best MPG.  Just randomly getting lower cruise RPM isn't the ticket, it's hitting the right RPM for your cam.

Edit: The longer story is that you need a proper first-gear final drive to get you moving and the proper top-gear final drive to match the VE provided by the cam.  In between first and last gear, you need a proper number of ratio changes to match the breadth of the torque curve.  A high-strung, small-displacement engine might need 6 or 8 closely-spaced ratios, while a Cadillac 500 might need 2 ratios.  I'm simply saying that you'll likely have a very broad torque curve which means you likely don't need more ratios with closer spacing, nor do I necessarily think you need to add a deeper OD.

Once you pick a cam, send me the specs.  I'll plug it in to a sim (if I can get it to work... it doesn't like the new Windows update) and send you some torque and VE curves.  Then we can talk about what ratios (and how many) you might need.