edizzle89
edizzle89 Reader
4/10/14 7:55 a.m.

so i just got the bungs welded on and holes filled in my oil pan and i never really looked at it before but the way it bolts onto the block has me asking a few questions.

this is the pan in question, as you can see there are the 2 usual holes at the rear of the pan, but you'll also notice that the lip of the pan goes in, not out like most oil pans. you cant see it in this picture but there are 2 plugs in the bottom of the pan that you have to remove and use a long extension to blindly put those 2 bolts in, i just cant wrap my head around as to why they would do that.

you will also see on that pan that it is missing the 2 holes in the front corners. again... why? here is an example of one with the holes in the front corners

anybody know the reasoning behind this?

edizzle89
edizzle89 Reader
4/10/14 8:20 a.m.

just noticed that first pic is kinda small, heres a link to see it better

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B002LC93X0/ref=dp_image_z_0?ie=UTF8&n=15684181&s=automotive

Ranger50
Ranger50 PowerDork
4/10/14 8:28 a.m.

Because one is their drag pan and the other is a street/RR version?

The one with the plugs keep the oil from sloshing back and blowing past the rear main seal.

oldopelguy
oldopelguy SuperDork
4/10/14 9:42 a.m.

Drop it back off and have a pair of bungs welded around the holes so you can plug or cap the holes for real?

jimbbski
jimbbski HalfDork
4/10/14 11:15 a.m.

Buy a Canton pan and you won't have these issues.

edizzle89
edizzle89 Reader
4/10/14 11:34 a.m.

theres no issue with the pan i just just confused as to why moroso made the pan this way, and its the pan that came with my project and is already modified to clear the sway bar so i'll end up using it.

maybe my first post is a little confusing. the first picture is the pan I have, the second picture is just a reference to show the the 2 mounting holes in the front corners of the pan that are not in my pan (the black one), nothing to do with its shape/design.

also in the first picture you can see the rear lip of the pan that bolts to the engine is on the inside of the pan where most pans the lip is on the outside and i was confused as to what the benefit of this would be.

Cone_Junkie
Cone_Junkie SuperDork
4/10/14 12:03 p.m.

You can fit .1 qts more oil in there? And two less bolts means a few grams of shaved weight to compensate for the .1 qts of extra oil?

TeamEvil
TeamEvil Reader
4/10/14 12:45 p.m.

How does the pan fit the block? Any issues with the timing cover or it being warped? That pan is a notorious Dog, loads of info and complaints and such on every Ford Forum on the web. Leaks, those bolt-less corners, the inboard mounting holes for the studs, the fit around the main caps, etc.

Luckily, there is also loads of advice on how to work around or correct the faults. MOROSO has been using that stupid design forever and just keeps selling the pan to everyone who needs the extra volume and wants room for a windage tray in spite if it all.

Just all part of the major COOL in running a SBF rather then an old Chevy station wagon engine and trans.

marks93cobra
marks93cobra New Reader
4/10/14 12:52 p.m.

That Moroso pan appears to be very square....perhaps that missing bolt hole is partially (or totally) obscured by a corner??

edizzle89
edizzle89 Reader
4/10/14 1:01 p.m.

i have only held it up to the engine while its on the stand, havent bolted it down yet. seemed like everything lined up alright with just eye-balling it, we will see in a few days after i clean it up and paint it.

i also planned on laying the gasket on it and seeing if i can drill out the 2 missing holes as long as they dont interfere with the side of the pan or anything, that seems like a lot of area to not have any clamping force

novaderrik
novaderrik PowerDork
4/10/14 1:25 p.m.
TeamEvil wrote: How does the pan fit the block? Any issues with the timing cover or it being warped? That pan is a notorious Dog, loads of info and complaints and such on every Ford Forum on the web. Leaks, those bolt-less corners, the inboard mounting holes for the studs, the fit around the main caps, etc. Luckily, there is also loads of advice on how to work around or correct the faults. MOROSO has been using that stupid design forever and just keeps selling the pan to everyone who needs the extra volume and wants room for a windage tray in spite if it all. Just all part of the major COOL in running a SBF rather then an old Chevy station wagon engine and trans.

how do you know the Ford engine in question isn't out of a station wagon?

Toyman01
Toyman01 GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
4/10/14 4:37 p.m.

Fixing the image.

EastCoastMojo
EastCoastMojo GRM+ Memberand Mod Squad
4/11/14 2:41 p.m.

Apparently I accidentally deleted username thor last night and his reply to this thread has disappeared. My apologies thor!

Joe Gearin
Joe Gearin Associate Publisher
4/11/14 4:05 p.m.

Thor works for Moroso and had a great explanation of why the pan is designed the way it is. Hopefully he'll jump back into the conversation. If he isn't able, contact Moroso for more info:

www.moroso.com 203-453-6571

and yes....Thor is the brother of former GRMer Per Schroeder---- so you know he's a good guy!

EastCoastMojo
EastCoastMojo GRM+ Memberand Mod Squad
4/11/14 4:07 p.m.
Joe Gearin wrote: and yes....Thor is the brother of former GRMer Per Schroeder---- so you know he's a good guy!

D'oh! I feel really bad about this. I hope he will re-join and post his reply again.

Joe Gearin
Joe Gearin Associate Publisher
4/11/14 4:09 p.m.

No sweat Mojo---- we appreciate you sinking canoes.....in any battle there is bound to be "collateral damage"

thors
thors New Reader
4/14/14 1:14 p.m.

First off I would like to say that I have been a supporter of the GRM since the mid '80s. EastcoastMojo, no problem, I appreciate the apology but I know how much effort and time that it takes to support GRM, no worries. I will try to replicate the response that I submitted a couple of days. Yes I do work for Moroso and I have for almost 6.5 years, before that I worked at Canton Racing Products for almost 10 years. There is a reason why the Moroso oil pan with the black finish was designed the way it was. This oil pan design can accommodate Ford Racing engine blocks that have 4 Bolt main caps. The front of the oil pan is moved out so that there is enough room for the Front 4 Bolt Main Cap, this is reason the two corner mounting holes disappear. Going to the rear of the oil pan an inverted oil pan rail needs to be used to that there is enough clearance for the Rear 4 Bolt Main Cap to clear the oil pan.

There are a couple of different ways to build a racing/high performance oil pan. The first way is to base the oil pan on a new oil pan core stamping (such as the one in the image with the text under it that says "anybody know the reasoning behind this?"), a manufacturer would not want to base their product on a used oil pan core that would need to stripped, de-greased, checked for rust, etc. These oil pan core stamping are available from a limited amount of suppliers, so the different Racing/High Performance Oil Pan Companies base their product on all pretty much the same oil pan cores.

Second way to produce an oil pan is too fabricate it from scratch, without using a oil pan core.

Without sounding like I am calling TeamEvil Reader out, I am just giving everyone information on the point brought up in his (her's) post. Unlike the typical SBC or BBC, Ford Racing/High Performance Oil Pans historically have been harder to get an end result that is perfect. This is due to a couple of reasons; A. Variances in the oil pan core stampings that are available to the Racing/High Performance Oil Pan manufacturers

B. The oil pan core stampings that are available to the Racing/High Performance Oil Pan manufacturers that are best to base Racing/High Performance designs off of were originally designed off a front sump Ford application instead of a rear sump Ford application. Front Sump Oil Pan cores use the "older Style" oil pan gasket, the core itself has dimples along oil pan rails (rear sump oil cores don't have these dimples)and the radius of the front and rear seals is different than the rear sump oil pan cores. That is why we are very specific in our product information in regards to which gasket should be used for which oil pan. If the wrong gasket is used then there is the potential for leaks.

On Moroso fabricated Oil Pans in the past have had strips of punched out material for the side rails, the end seals are created by bending straps of material to follow the radius of the front timing cover and the engine block’s rear main seal. Welding sheet metal to these side rails and straps to build the rest of the oil pan. As you know welding creates heat so these side rails and straps were getting pulled in different directions, even when using jigs to build the oil pans on. The trick was to have proper distance between the oil pan, front timing cover and the engine block rear main seal, taking into consideration variances in gasket thickness(s) and gasket squish when tightened down. Our competitors produce their fabricated oil pans like above to this day but in some cases the side rails of their oil pans are not even strips of material, but is the folded-over material that is used to form the sump of the oil pan off of.

Realizing that there is a better way to build a Fabricated Ford Oil Pan, recently Moroso has gone away from using the straps for the seal areas, now our fabricated oil pans have front and rear seal areas that are machined out of bars of steel or aluminum depending what material is used for the rest of the oil pan. The end result is no leakage if installed correctly and better engine vacuum numbers. Toyman01 fixed(Thank You), my original post's image of a Moroso oil pan with billet seals

In regards to edizzle89, if you would like to contact me about your oil pan, we can add bungs, notches, block fit, and pressure leak test for you at no charge.

Sincerely, Thor Schroeder

Joe Gearin
Joe Gearin Associate Publisher
4/14/14 1:25 p.m.

Thanks for the detailed response Thor!

edizzle89
edizzle89 Reader
4/14/14 2:29 p.m.

awesome response thor! i really appriciate it, you covered all the bases and then some. and i wish i would have known about the bung and notch thing sooner haha i just got it back from the welding shop last week to have all that done and finished painting it last night.

if i have any other issues with the pan after i get it on i will get in touch with you, and with customer support like that ill be using moroso pans in the future for sure

TeamEvil
TeamEvil Reader
4/14/14 7:04 p.m.

Hey,

You can call me out any old time, no biggie at all. I haven't got a dog in this race really, as I'm running a stock Ford pan on my 302. Just noting a problem that a lot of local guys have run into that seems to be something that's quite common place.

https://www.google.com/#q=problems+with+Moroso+SBF+oil+pans

edizzle89
edizzle89 Reader
4/14/14 9:39 p.m.

So thor, when you say you can block fit my pan what do you mean? Im guessing its to check that it fits correctly to the block. I was checking out my pan earlier and it looks like the front and rear seals on the pan are really tight in the corners and arent letting the pan get pulled all the way down on the sides.

Ill let you know how it seals when I get the new gaskets in and torque it down, hopefully it will get sucked down and seal ok

thors
thors New Reader
4/15/14 9:48 a.m.

edizle89, What we do is check in on an engine block, finesse it if it needs finessing then we would flat check it and leak test it. For a gasket I would recommend a one-piece gasket for the 302 rear sump applications. If you have a problem with sealing just let me know.

TeamEvil Reader I appreciate your attitude, what do you have your 302 in?

-Thor

TeamEvil
TeamEvil Reader
4/15/14 2:02 p.m.

Hey Thor,

I think that a sort of "yell at me if you want" kind of attitude is a good one to have on an automotive forum. I make loads stupid posts each week and most everyone here knows WAY more than I'll ever know.

My little 302 (nothing special: cam, headers, intake and carb) is all set to go into the MGA, just cutting the goal posts a bit at a time until the trans clears it. The engine has Moroso valve covers, breathers, and air cleaner. Clean and simple. The Moroso products seem to have SO much more of a purpose built/business only sense about them that the "cruise night" Edelbrock items simple lack entirely.

—TC

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