What was the First USA built production car with a 5 speed trans ?

In reply to oldopelguy (Forum Supporter) :

Most of those were accomplished with transfer cases or gear splitting though. I think the op is asking about traditional manual transmission with 5 forward gears.

My father's 1966 GMC 960 commercial chassis (Thibault fire truck) had a clark 5-speed with no synchros.

It also had a two-speed rear axle.

I know that White Trucks in the late 1940s had a 5-speed transmission but I couldn't tell you who made it or the model number. <edit> Some digging has told me that this was a Clark transmission as well.

The only reason I know is because Jim Hoe put one in his Duesenberg race car in the 1950s to replace the rather fragile 3-speeds they came with.

I have a New Process 540 out of a 60s Dodge truck and it's a real 5 speed, no OD box. I think the Clark 251VO in storage was out of a '61 truck, and I don't know when they started building duece and a halfs, but the Spicer 3053B I have out of one is a real 5-speed too.

Dad has a 65 Ford 1 ton with a 5 speed. He isn't sure the trans is original but it is old enough that it has the parking brake (drum) on the output of the trans. Sucker works good too. Lost a wheel cylinder hardcore and the pedal goes straight to the floor but that parking brake stops the truck dead. 
 

Edit* also 352FE. Cool truck. 

Truck 5 speeds go back possibly to WW2, I assumed we were looking for passenger cars.

barefootskater said:

Edit* also 352FE. Cool truck. 

Ahh yes, the 352.

All the weight and fuel consumption of an FE engine with the torque of a Windsor....

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

It took a long time to figure out how to make the T5 live behind the torque of a V8.  The first T5 in a V8 Mustang appeared in 1983.  I really like the 85s with 5 speed, roller cam and 210 hp four barrel.  I'd love to find one in clean condition to restomod.

A lot of people think they never did figure it out   The low transfer ratio boxes with the 2.95 or 3.15 First helped, since the torque rating jumped from 200 to 295 ft-lb when they did that.  But even in the 80s people were wrecking T5s with nearly stock Mustangs.

Wally (Forum Supporter) said:

Truck 5 speeds go back possibly to WW2, I assumed we were looking for passenger cars.

What was Ford's first all aluminum DOHC V8?  

Not sure what model got it first but I'm guessing it was a Borg Warner T50.  Just so happens I have a NOS one sitting in that aluminum monocoque thing I bought on the GRM for sale section several years ago.  It is set up to go behind an aluminum Olds V8.  I know they were in the Monza variants in the mid 70s.  My wife's mother had a beige one with a 305 when I started dating my wife in 83.  Pulled BOP pattern bell housing in junk yards from the V6 versions before to go behind Buick 300s.  

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

Wally (Forum Supporter) said:

Truck 5 speeds go back possibly to WW2, I assumed we were looking for passenger cars.

What was Ford's first all aluminum DOHC V8?  

Would that be the "Ford" 3.0 from the mid 60's that Cosworth drew?

In reply to Streetwiseguy:

During WW2 they made a giant aluminum DOHC tank engine.  

In reply to ShawnG :

I didn't say efficient or powerful, but cool. But I think Lima's are cool so I may be a bit off. 

Streetwiseguy said:

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

Wally (Forum Supporter) said:

Truck 5 speeds go back possibly to WW2, I assumed we were looking for passenger cars.

What was Ford's first all aluminum DOHC V8?  

Would that be the "Ford" 3.0 from the mid 60's that Cosworth drew?

Way earlier than that.  And way larger than that.

Wally (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Streetwiseguy:

During WW2 they made a giant aluminum DOHC tank engine.  

Bingo.  The GAA engine, which was something like 1100ci (18 liters, or 18.000cc) of displacement.

It was a 60 degree V8.  They originally designed a V12 for aircraft use, but for political reasons all liquid cooled aircraft engine allocation was assigned to GM/Packard/Allison, so Ford hacked 2/3rd of the engine off and marketed it as a tank engine.

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

It took a long time to figure out how to make the T5 live behind the torque of a V8.  The first T5 in a V8 Mustang appeared in 1983.  I really like the 85s with 5 speed, roller cam and 210 hp four barrel.  I'd love to find one in clean condition to restomod.

Gm never could get them to last with the tpi 350 hence why along with fuel economy they only came with the 700r4 in the f bodies.

In reply to MotorsportsGordon :

Borg-Warner only ever rated the T5 fo 295 ft-lb, so the 350 was a no-go.  The Ford 5.0 and Chevy 305 only barely broke that.

This is nothing unusual.  Aisin-Warner rated their AW55 front/all wheel drive 5 speed auto to 268 ft-lb, so many automakers limited the engines they used  with it to 268ft-lb.  This trans was widely used by Volvo, Nissan, SAAB, GM, and others.

Did we ever get an answer for this?

Just curious.

Scott

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

It took a long time to figure out how to make the T5 live behind the torque of a V8.  The first T5 in a V8 Mustang appeared in 1983.  I really like the 85s with 5 speed, roller cam and 210 hp four barrel.  I'd love to find one in clean condition to restomod.

A lot of people think they never did figure it out   The low transfer ratio boxes with the 2.95 or 3.15 First helped, since the torque rating jumped from 200 to 295 ft-lb when they did that.  But even in the 80s people were wrecking T5s with nearly stock Mustangs.

My experience was vastly different and most failures were the result of bent shift forks not allowing the gears to engage properly.  T5s can't handle abuse and honestly a lot of people are really bad manual transmission operators.  It explains why manual equipped cars are getting so hard to find.

noddaz said:

Did we ever get an answer for this?

Just curious.

Scott

So far, its the 76 Oldsmobile.

Streetwiseguy said:

noddaz said:

Did we ever get an answer for this?

Just curious.

Scott

So far, its the 76 Oldsmobile.

A 1975 Cosworth Vega had a 5 speed box.

Scott

noddaz said:

Streetwiseguy said:

noddaz said:

Did we ever get an answer for this?

Just curious.

Scott

So far, its the 76 Oldsmobile.

A 1975 Cosworth Vega had a 5 speed box.

Scott

 

'75 Cosworth was a 4 speed only. Borg Warner 5 speed showed up in '76.

Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:

I stand corrected, it's the 1976 GM compact car lineup with the Borg-Warner T-50 manual transmission.

I had a 1976 Vega GT with the T-50 dogleg 5 speed. Bought the car only because of the dogleg (no reverse lockout). Ended up putting a Buick V6 in front of it.

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

 most failures were the result of bent shift forks not allowing the gears to engage properly.  T5s can't handle abuse and honestly a lot of people are really bad manual transmission operators.  It explains why manual equipped cars are getting so hard to find.

Not sure if the T5 has shifter stops in it but this was the real reason that Hurst shifters were a big deal.

Hurst put stop bolts in the shifter so that if you set it up properly, it was nearly impossible to bend shift forks no matter how ham-fisted you were.

In reply to ShawnG :

The factory = no stops hence the Hurst design.  Hurst spawned a whole set of cottage industry copies too Pro 5.0, Steeda Tri-Ax, MGW.....  and others.  I always go Hurst whenever I can because its really their design and R&D.  

I can remember driving a mid 70's Monza V6 5 spd. and thinking , with all that torque why even 5 .  

But then I skip speeds/gears on the FiST.