bearmtnmartin wrote: So I gather a real truck is one that sucks to drive. I'll stick to my 2008 dodge 3500. I like old trucks, but I don't mind being comfortable.
Yep. My '95 Cummins 5 spd pretty much sucks to drive for more than an hour. While I'll agree there is a certain romantic notion about driving an old truck, in reality it can be a hot, uncomfortable chore.
86 F series.
Damn hard to kill
Oh look, more crotchety GRM doom n' gloom!
My '89 C1500 has a TBI 350, 4speed manual with granny low, roll up windows, and no radio. 'Real' trucks have standard cabs and 8' boxes.
fasted58 wrote: Any trucks w/ granny low, manual t-case and rubber floor mats you could pop the cab corner plugs n hose it out after a day in the woods or a mud run. 80's at the latest
I had a 1994 FS Bronco I bought from the Environmental Police. Manual T-case, not a spec of carpet to be found, vinyl buckets and rear bench, roll-up windows... it was a E4OD so you got me on that (I agree with you!).
Soooo, I'd get into the 90's for the most part.
bearmtnmartin wrote: So I gather a real truck is one that sucks to drive. I'll stick to my 2008 dodge 3500. I like old trucks, but I don't mind being comfortable.
This I agree with. My "lifted car" tows 5k lbs with ease, carries 5-6 in comfort, has working AC, good brakes and doesn't need a tune up every 15k miles. It's quiet, it will eat up the miles and it will do work with ease.
Why the hate on anything not uncomfortable on here? Just because it is somethign that is nice to drive doesn't mean it can't do work.
I mean, with 7k miles on the odo, it hauled this (trailer and tractor weighted 8400lbs, we were over our max tow capacity and didn't know it until we were done):
Then 2 years and 30k miles later did this:
Travelled 5800 miles in 7 days, over 1500 miles of 2 lane mountain roads, averaged 21mpg roundtrip, ws never "boring" in the hills and neither the wife nor I's ass was sore. That, to me, IS a "real truck". It does it all, and never complains.
I got to be honest, I don't understand all the hate on here lately.
What hate? Are you being serious?
Just asking if others agree with me, your choices may vary from mine, but no hate.
Tyler H wrote: Big trucks don't work off road.
Ummmmm... huh? Too many real-world example to the contrary to list.
In regards to the OP, I guess it's all a matter of degrees. I'd hate to think that an 80's F-150 with a 300 I6, a 4 spd and 9" rear isn't as "real" as a similar 70's truck just cuz it's got an AM/FM Cassette player, A/C and a nicer steering wheel.
Oh, and what about an 80's K5 Blazer with a a 350cid, TH350, 12 bolt and Dana 44 axles? Does it become too "cushy"' and less "truck" because it was ordered with a NP203 full-time transfer case?
Tyler H wrote: I'll throw my vote for best all-around utility truck: Nissan 720 4WD extended cab, 5spd up through the earliest Frontiers. If you don't need to tow, these will do everything else. Big trucks don't work off road.
I like this. Nissan trucks are pretty darn indestructible. Fully boxed frames, tough (if underpowered) 4 and 6 cylinders, solid 4wd systems (except for when the newer ones started using Dana crap), manual trans available (and common), and typical Japan quality. Gonna get myself a 4cyl 4wd hardbody someday...
Folks bought a new Nissan Hardbody in 1994. 4cyl, 5-spd. Ate 3 ECU's in 12 months, and spent about 6 weeks at the dealership. If that was what people think "typical Japan Quality" means, well I'll stick to the old junk that I can still work on. 
Bobzilla wrote: Folks bought a new Nissan Hardbody in 1994. 4cyl, 5-spd. Ate 3 ECU's in 12 months, and spent about 6 weeks at the dealership. If that was what people think "typical Japan Quality" means, well I'll stick to the old junk that I can still work on.
Sounds like they got a lemon...that is definitely a-typical.
bearmtnmartin wrote: So I gather a real truck is one that sucks to drive. I'll stick to my 2008 dodge 3500. I like old trucks, but I don't mind being comfortable.
I don't think a vinyl floor, manual transmission, manual transfer case, and lock out hubs translate into "sucks to drive".
Just a truck that can work hard, minimal electronics to fail, clean easy, and the interior won't look 10 years old and ratty after a year of dirt, mud, snow, and slush.
drainoil wrote:turbojunker wrote: My company vehicle is a 2011 F250, and it has a rubber floor mat, vinyl seats, manual hubs, manual transfer case, and a solid front axle. All hope is not lost.Does it have manual roll down windows? As far as full size suvs go, 1991 was the last year of the "real" ones imo. They were the last year for the square bodied Suburbans.
It has power windows, which I would rather have. My only complaint is the DBW throttle.
I think a truck should be judged by capability, rather than crudeness.
My 2000 Chevy 2500 has a 10,800lb tow rating, I've had 2800 lbs of gravel in the bed, it's seen its share of off-road camping and trailer towing. It's been dead nuts reliable for the 3 years I've had it but...
It's not a truck because it has carpets, push-button 4x4, and heated seats?
The definition is screwy IMHO
Push button 4x4 vs a stick on the floor.
In ice and salt the Linkage freezes:
With push button motor the burns up($$$$$$), with any luck you wont be stuck in neutral.
Stick on the floor gets stuck? Use your boots and kick the sucker loose.
ebonyandivory wrote:Tyler H wrote: Big trucks don't work off road.Ummmmm... huh? Too many real-world example to the contrary to list.
Just my experience after working Japanese stuff for ten years and then moving to full size trucks. Other than towing and hauling kids, the full size truck is a huge compromise. Especially off-road where the extra weight and reduced maneuverability are really evident. Big trucks get stuck easier and harder to un-stick.
By off road, I mean inclines, rough trails and mud. Gravel and grass don't count.
doc_speeder wrote: I think a truck should be judged by capability, rather than crudeness. My 2000 Chevy 2500 has a 10,800lb tow rating, I've had 2800 lbs of gravel in the bed, it's seen its share of off-road camping and trailer towing. It's been dead nuts reliable for the 3 years I've had it but... It's not a truck because it has carpets, push-button 4x4, and heated seats? The definition is screwy IMHO
I don't think it crudeness, as it is so much more to the meaning as to be simplistic. Are heated seats nice? Sure, but in something that really doesn't need it? Carpets looks like crap, period. 4x4 is worthless to me 99.9% of the time and not worth the added expense for even when it is needed.
We are talking 50k, if not 60-65k, now for a fully loaded 3/4 ton. There is a market for a 28-35k stripper model that is just a rubber mat, vinyl bench seat, no bells and whistles work truck that has the "high end" engine and trans combo.
Tom_Spangler wrote: And they can tow and haul more than the "manly" vintage trucks of yore, and outrun them, all while delivering better mileage and cleaner emissions. I love the fact that my F-150 can haul and tow like a champ, but also has a really nice interior. To me it's the best of both
A modern minivan will also outperform a 70s Ferrari in any objective test of measurement, but that doesn't make it a performance car.
A truck, by nature, is a motorized wheelbarrow. A modern half-ton puts a lot of lipstick on that pig.
Tyler H wrote: Just my experience after working Japanese stuff for ten years and then moving to full size trucks. Other than towing and hauling kids, the full size truck is a huge compromise. Especially off-road where the extra weight and reduced maneuverability are really evident. Big trucks get stuck easier and harder to un-stick. By off road, I mean inclines, rough trails and mud. Gravel and grass don't count.
I cannot argue with the sheer size and weight not physically fitting on trails but my Suzuki Samurais take that concept even further. But I bet my Suburban and Blazers have been on lots of trails and granite ledges and boulders than most would want to believe.
Just tough to really quantify opinions
Faster in a Wrangler, Funner in a K30! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dTuE4SqkXA&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtGW3DUNx6A
Osterkraut wrote: Oh look, more crotchety GRM doom n' gloom!
You ought to go to Speedtalk and listen to the people bitching about cars not having carburetors and points anymore.
There's one guy, who I think was finally run out of the joint, who used to bitch at every opportunity that Chevy should have made a one year transitionary engine that used the SBC bottom end and the LS1 top end. Never mind that it would have made absolutely no sense for them to do so, or that much of the LS1's benefits were in the bottom end, or that the head bolt pattern change was a lot of what allowed the heads to work, by gum they inconvenienced him greatly by not making a way for him to have a junkyardable LS1 with a carb and points, or something.
I don't really have a dog in this hunt. I think all trucks suck. The '98 up Chevys seem to have the best compromise between not having steering, and usability as a truck. The new F150s horrify me.
Ranger50 wrote: We are talking 50k, if not 60-65k, now for a fully loaded 3/4 ton. There is a market for a 28-35k stripper model that is just a rubber mat, vinyl bench seat, no bells and whistles work truck that has the "high end" engine and trans combo.
And they do make them. You think the F250s that the utility companies use have power everything and voice-activated Bluetooth enabled butt massagers? They have rubber floors, vinyl bench seats, and about a half inch of dust over everything except for a thumbswipe over the odometer. You just don't see them on the dealer lots for the same reason you don't see no-options anything on dealer lots. If you want it, you gotta order it.
Interesting factoid: For the longest time, the E250 with the heaviest GVWR was the 4.2 model. AT&T bought the snot out of those. And they'd overload them, to boot.
Knurled wrote: A truck, by nature, is a motorized wheelbarrow. A modern half-ton puts a lot of lipstick on that pig.
If by "lipstick" you mean way more power, torque, towing and hauling capacity, then whore me up. The comfort and convenience features are just icing on the cake, but at my age, I want them, sorry.
I have my E30 for wrenching and fiddling. I want my truck to just work, in any weather, without me needing to adjust points, tune the carb, etc.
In reply to Knurled:
And most of those are junk ass gassers. I am talking the "old farm truck" with a diesel to fit into the rest of the fleets they have.
Thing is, though, Diesel is the premium option, and as long as people are willing to spend $60k for the clatter, then they have no incentive to make a $30k version.
Like anything else, if one of the Big Two (sorry Dodge, your offerings are garbage anymore, you're dead to me) wishes to make a small displacement light duty Diesel, and it turns out to be a hot seller, then the other one will follow suit. Neither one seems willing to make that jump, and Ford seems all but dedicated to perfecting direct-injected gasoline engines for truck use.
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