What’s happening with Jaguar?

  

   The whole reason Jaguar was sold was British politicians  had what was called a Golden share. To keep Jaguar British owned. 
     It's a sad chapter of Englands dealing with  their most famous businesses.   I'm sure there is a great deal hidden under the rug but without a lot of inside knowledge we'll never know.  

There are insiders posting in this thread and you're ignoring their first hand experience.

This thread is hilarious. If you read it out loud in a Monte Python esque manner it's really spectacular. 
 

Please continue. 

Nathan JansenvanDoorn said:

  

   The whole reason Jaguar was sold was British politicians  had what was called a Golden share. To keep Jaguar British owned. 
     It's a sad chapter of Englands dealing with  their most famous businesses.   I'm sure there is a great deal hidden under the rug but without a lot of inside knowledge we'll never know.  

There are insiders posting in this thread and you're ignoring their first hand experience.

Well... yeah.  Frenchy doesn't read other people's posts.

Edit: frenchy isn't down with OPP.

In reply to alfadriver :

Alfadriver.   
 Both the inline 4 valve six and the V8 were designed and built by Jaguar.   Before Ford swooped in and bought Jaguar at 5 times it's real value. 
    Yes Ford sourced some components  from their sources. Including the tacky plastic covers. Before they were released  to production.  Read Saving Jaguar by the former CEO John Egan for confirmation.  

Oh, probably 16 years ago, I had a conversation with a chassis designer who worked on the Cobalt SS. One of the car rags had printed that the rear suspension was a cribbed off some version of VW GTI. Here's the fun part, I didn't know this guy was on the chassis team, it just came up in conversation. Of course, they didn't copy the VW; they ended up with a very similar design because they had similar criteria, footprint, mass, perhaps even the same vendors for bushings and the like. The rag, probably Car and Driver, misconstrued similarity with copying. The guy was a bit insulted at first until I clarified that it was actually praise.  The magazine was impressed with the ride and handling. Then we had a great conversation about the development process. 
 

The point being, books and articles particularly those written by a former CEO, might be a bit one sided or take some liberties with the story. In any case, you are not getting the whole story. A grain of salt might be required. 

In reply to tester (Forum Supporter) :

This is the internet, tester.  Everyone's an expert if they did their own research.

I own a 1966 Jaaaaaag.  Therefore I am exactly as qualified to comment on the entire history of Jaaaaag, as well as their entire current product line, as my rooster.  

I will say, the current F-type is a beautiful car, as modern cars go, and were I in the target demo, I'd be looking at one.  

frenchyd said:

In reply to alfadriver :

Alfadriver.   
 Both the inline 4 valve six and the V8 were designed and built by Jaguar.   Before Ford swooped in and bought Jaguar at 5 times it's real value. 
    Yes Ford sourced some components  from their sources. Including the tacky plastic covers. Before they were released  to production.  Read Saving Jaguar by the former CEO John Egan for confirmation.  

My last post on this thread.  I've already pointed out you are wrong, but the way you post that is pretty clear how wrong you are.  Ford bought Jag in 1989.   The first V8 in production was 1996 for Jag.   That's 7 years.  So for Jag to have developed it BEFORE the purchase, well...  That's a really long time.  In my career, it took 5 years from drawing board to production, so the V8 would originally had been done in 1992.  Oh, and at that exact same moment in time, the modular V8 was in development AND one of it's early versions was a 4.0l and not a 4.6l.   Given that Jag had never done a V8 previously, and then it's been claimed that they changed the car to prevent a Rover v8 from fitting in, to pretend that the Jag V8 was totally Jaguar is a stretch for fantasies.  

In the end, Jaguar is failing, again.  Just like it was in the 80s- BTW, the sales data I see is that it peaked in the mid 80s before declining up until the Ford purchase in 1989.  

Given the fact that their enthusiasts can't understand why, well you follow a pattern of the parent company that can't see their core problems.  

Good luck with that.

In reply to alfadriver :

But...but...wikipedia says so! 

" It was an in house design with work beginning before Ford's purchase of the company. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_AJ-V8_engine

alfadriver said:

frenchyd said:

In reply to alfadriver :

Alfadriver.   
 Both the inline 4 valve six and the V8 were designed and built by Jaguar.   Before Ford swooped in and bought Jaguar at 5 times it's real value. 
    Yes Ford sourced some components  from their sources. Including the tacky plastic covers. Before they were released  to production.  Read Saving Jaguar by the former CEO John Egan for confirmation.  

My last post on this thread.  I've already pointed out you are wrong, but the way you post that is pretty clear how wrong you are.  Ford bought Jag in 1989.   The first V8 in production was 1996 for Jag.   That's 7 years.  So for Jag to have developed it BEFORE the purchase, well...  That's a really long time.  In my career, it took 5 years from drawing board to production, so the V8 would originally had been done in 1992.  Oh, and at that exact same moment in time, the modular V8 was in development AND one of it's early versions was a 4.0l and not a 4.6l.   Given that Jag had never done a V8 previously, and then it's been claimed that they changed the car to prevent a Rover v8 from fitting in, to pretend that the Jag V8 was totally Jaguar is a stretch for fantasies.  

In the end, Jaguar is failing, again.  Just like it was in the 80s- BTW, the sales data I see is that it peaked in the mid 80s before declining up until the Ford purchase in 1989.  

Given the fact that their enthusiasts can't understand why, well you follow a pattern of the parent company that can't see their core problems.  

Good luck with that.

After Jaguar bought Daimler they did sell a version of the mark 2 with the Daimler v8 for a while back but then killed off the engine.

In reply to MotorsportsGordon :

"After Jaguar bought Daimler they did sell a version of the mark 2 with the Daimler v8 for a while back but then killed off the engine."

That was a sweet little engine.  And somewhat sought after by weird car afficionados who want to put a Hemi in something quirky just so they can tell people it's got a Hemi...but it's not a Chrysler.  

volvoclearinghouse said:

In reply to MotorsportsGordon :

"After Jaguar bought Daimler they did sell a version of the mark 2 with the Daimler v8 for a while back but then killed off the engine."

That was a sweet little engine.  And somewhat sought after by weird car afficionados who want to put a Hemi in something quirky just so they can tell people it's got a Hemi...but it's not a Chrysler.  

They even had a 4.5 version in the Majestic Major and limo

And the xj220 engine wasn't a jag design that was the mg metro 6r4 group b rally engine.

FrenchyD said: "The F type simply lacked the timeless styling earlier classic cars had."

Kb58 said: "My one purely emotional automotive buying decision was the purchase of a used 2015 F-Type R. ...I bought it for a reason I though I was immune to - looks. To me it's art on wheels"

Yupididit said: "The Ftype R will be the only Jaguar I'll ever own from this point forward."

Ar86andkp61 said: "Me three, it is just such a beautiful car! I've often lusted after one."

I feel the same way, the F-Type is a work of art.

Maybe this is the core problem with Jaguar, the people who bought the cars in the 1980s and 1990s were looking for the classic Jaguar style and management thought that would never change so a 2007 XJ looks very much like a 1973 XJ, the 2002 X-Type was basically the same style so it very strongly resembled a car from the early 70s, the S-Type had the retro style of a mid 60s Jaguar, etc. Despite a few "retro" style hits (PT Cruiser, 2005 Mustang, Beetle), most people didn't want a new car that looked like an old one.  When Jaguar finally went in a modern styling direction with the XF in 2008 the people who remembered Jaguar's glory times didn't like the new style or were done buying cars and the majority of the public didn't know Jaguar was still making new cars. When the F-TYPE was introduced the brand no longer had the cachet of Mercedes or Ferrari so despite being a beautiful, fast car it wasn't a sales success.  When the electric I-Pace was introduced I thought it looked better than the Teslas but nobody knows it exists and nobody cares despite it having competitive range and performance. Of course, naming a gas powered crossover the E-Pace may have confused some buyers.

I think enthusiasts might be the only people who like the new style and the old style and most of us aren't buying new Jaguars, and not all enthusiasts like the new style. I have a 2001 XJR, would love an E-Type, have been watching for an XKR coupe or an F-Type, but I didn't even think about visiting a Jaguar dealership when I bought a new car last summer. I did look at the Germans and Italians but Jaguar didn't even register.

frenchyd said:

 Further Ford had just purchased Saab  so clearly not buying Alfa  was not bothering  Ford.   At $2.5 billion  Ford clearly saw value in Jaguars.

When did Ford ever own Saab?  It was GM that purchased Saab back then. 

In reply to rslifkin :

The facts aren't important. 
 

Why can't they build something like an electric XKE. Or at least an EV F-Type.

If Tesla can build an electric Lotus...

volvoclearinghouse said:

In reply to MotorsportsGordon :

"After Jaguar bought Daimler they did sell a version of the mark 2 with the Daimler v8 for a while back but then killed off the engine."

That was a sweet little engine.  And somewhat sought after by weird car afficionados who want to put a Hemi in something quirky just so they can tell people it's got a Hemi...but it's not a Chrysler.  

What could be more quirky than the SP250 that got that engine from the factory? I used to know somebody who vintage raced one of these...

Yeah. It's got a Hemi.

I liked the SP250 and always tried to park beside one at our annual British Field Day - they made my Jensen CV8 look almost normal!

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:

Why can't they build something like an electric XKE. Or at least an EV F-Type.

If Tesla can build an electric Lotus...

They are over in England.  I think it was Prince William that drove one?  
  Perhaps that is how Jaguar survives?  Become another Morgan?  

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:

Why can't they build something like an electric XKE. Or at least an EV F-Type.

If Tesla can build an electric Lotus...

The MGB V8 was supposed to get that engine, IIRC, before some wag found that the Buick V8 pretty much dropped in.

Apparently they went as far as splitting a shell up the middle and widening it by two inches to make room for the Daimler engine!

In reply to MotorsportsGordon :

That looks like a conversion of an old car. Could you imagine a production run of new ones. Kind of like the Tesla Roadster.

Seeing the modern instruments and a touch screen integrated into the old design is cool.

I'm sure they could sell them if they made them.

In reply to frenchyd :

Don't ignore the question, please enlighten us. When did Ford own SAAB?

Hey Steve....

Don't poke the frenchyd....we need to let him sleep....