My wife is beyond ready for me to execute on SOMETHING. So I have two Subarus lined up to buy one or the other this week. Each guy has agreed to take $3k even. Which one would you do for comfortable winter driving/potential road rally/rally cross?
2008 Legacy - 143k miles, owned since Jan 2019
2008 Outback - 198k miles, owned one year
Both have had head gaskets redone about a year ago. Outback guy did it himself along with timing. Legacy guy did them himself, says he had a professional look them over.
What would the hive do?
Well, those cars are very similar. Overall the sedan looks to be in better condition with less miles so I would lean towards that unless the extra utility of the wagon is something that is desirable to you. The bumper on the sedan should hopefully pop out for you with some heat where the dented in quarter on the wagon will require more work and paint to fix if that is important. The interior looks better on the sedan as well where the wagon is missing a chunk from the dash and is a lower trim level (basic cloth Subaru interiors do wear well though so maybe not a negative but the sedan looks good). The sedan won't be as slow either being a bit lighter and should hopefully get better fuel mileage (but that is not these cars strong point). In snow with equal tires they will be equally good until it gets really deep and the extra bit of ground clearance comes in handy. Once again the sedan should be quicker at rallycross unless your venue needs the extra ground clearance.
I'd buy the sedan unless the test drives reveal some issues that sets one apart over the other. While on the test drives take a peak under the car where the heads meet the block, if the gaskets are good (which they should be) things will be dry there, if they are bad you can expect to see some oil or coolant (typically oil) seepage. Probably the other big thing to lookout for is rod knock, maybe listen to some youtube videos so you can identify it. I bought my 07 Legacy as an as-is special with that and spun a bearing soon after a rallycross, I dropped a junkyard motor out of a similar year/mileage impreza and the car has been perfect since with more rallycross, some autocross and even an open lapping day at over 330,000 km now. These cars are easy to work on and everything is easily accessible under the hood.
My initial answer would be wagon for utility, but...
That broken paint in the wagon will not wear well exposed to your ultra salty climate so your gonna need to address that. Doesn't have to be fixed perfect but will need some attention. That means time and money.
Agreed, the sedan dent can be popped out. Take off the plastic bumper cover, pour nearly boiling water on the back side of the plastic to make it all warm, very quickly and then just massage the plastic back into proper shape.
I think the wagon is always gonna look like a bit of a mess. Less of a car that you might want to arrive at a clients office with. The sedan does not have the same issue.
For these reasons, I choose sedan...unless this is a utility only purchases and then the wagon has greater utility.
Sedan for fashion
Wagon for function
Does one have notably better tires than the other? I ask because the need for 4 tires can quickly set you back $600+ which is a significant amount. Is either wearing mis-matched tires? I hear these Subarus do not like mis-matched tires.
Sedan flaw:
Wagon flaw:
Yeah I agree, sedan. The broken paint and rust bubble on the wagon made it a non starter for me. The damage on the sedan looks manageable and the interior looks nicer.
Another vote for the Sedan.
This might be an apples and oranges comparison because the cars I had were of different generations, but the lower ride height of the Legacy makes for much better handling vs the Outback. My DD is an 08 Legacy 5mt and it's a really nice car with a good ride/handling/roadfeel balance for a DD.
One plus to the wagon provided that you fix that issue in the quarter is these cars do tend to show a bit of rust just ahead of the rear tire where that body line is. The lower piece is plastic but rust forms at the joint, this is only noticeable on the Legacy's as the Outbacks have plastic trim around all of the wheel wells covering it, body colour in this case but black in others (just like that new WRX has that everyone seems to hate!)
Tires:
Outback: 2 matching sets "75% good"
Legacy: TBD (update: I'd missed it earlier but he says "new tires" in the list of things he's fixed)
Sadly only the Imprezas (or older models of Legacy(?)) can use the pristine 205/55/16 set from my Saabaru but no one is coming up off of a decent one of those for the price I'm looking at
P3PPY said:
Tires:
Outback: 2 matching sets "75% good"
Does 2 matching sets mean there is 8 tires in total? 4 make up one set and the other 4 make up the other set?
or
Does this mean there are 4 tires in total? 2 make up one set and the other 2 make up the other set?
Does this then mean that the car is wearing a mismatched set of tires?
P3PPY said:
Tires:
Outback: 2 matching sets "75% good"
Legacy: TBD
Sadly only the Imprezas (or older models of Legacy(?)) can use the pristine 205/55/16 set from my Saabaru but no one is coming up off of a decent one of those for the price I'm looking at
I run 205/55R16 on my 07 Legacy 2.5i wagon (stock size for that year/model), I'd be surprised if they don't bolt right up to either car you are looking at here (but would be too small on the outback).
Edit - quick check on Rockauto shows 07 and 08 (which is facelift car from mine) use the same front rotors for all of the 2.5i models so I think you are good.
Oh buddy, the scales just keep tipping toward the Legacy!
John, I shoulda said matching "pairs" - so 4 tires in total but diff per axle
Whichever one has had the head gaskets and timing belt done he mos recently.
In reply to bobzilla :
Legacy: 14 months ago for HG ("mid 2019"), timing presumably about 100k
Outback: 9 months ago/less than 10k miles on both
Are the head gaskets known for failing repeatedly?
In reply to P3PPY :
yes. "normal maintenance" from my friends that keep buying them.
Isn't it a problem for the Outback to have been running mismatched pairs of tires? My understanding is that the AWD on Subarus demands that all four tires be the same diameter and mixing brands or even ages of the same tires is a very bad idea. I could be wrong, though.
Take a code reader with you if possible, these cars like to light up the dash if there is a check engine light on (or about to with a pending one that has been cleared for your test drive). Check Engine light, ABS light and an annoying blinking cruise control light all stay on and cruise is disabled. EVAP codes can be troublesome and hard to fix and the dreaded PO420 for a cat not working as well as it should.
There's also a really easy and cheap to replace oil pressure sensor on top of each head (drivers side at the front, passenger side at the rear) that will tend to leak before eventually failing and throwing a code. Just something to look for and possibly be a negotiating point
On headgaskets I put a set of Fel-Pro Multi-layer steel gaskets in when I dropped that motor in. That junkyard motor had around 240,000 km on it and didn't actually need them but the engine was out and I wanted to go through it while I had the chance (did the timing belt, water pump, t-stat etc. while I was at it). I've put another 90,000 km on that trouble free with no indication of them failing.
If things are dry down there I wouldn't be worried about them. It's an easy job to DIY if you happen to put some serious miles on the car and it needs them again. They don't catastrophically fail, they start to leak and eventually the leak gets bad enough you decide to deal with it maybe 6 months to a year later.
In reply to adam525i :
100-120K miles is pretty common (160-195k km's). 90k km's you're about halfway there.
I have an Impreza with 155k on the odo, no head gaskets in its history and it gets driven super hard. I do check fluid levels often though.
In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :
SHHHHH, just SHhhhh, do not let it hear you.
In reply to akylekoz :
This. It's only a matter of time. I've seen them pop a 30k and last 190k. One is a lot more common than the other imo.
Running different tires on AWD is a bad idea
And the winner is--- THE LEGACY!
It was a hard choice, in part because I feel bad about having taken so much of the Outback dude's time. But also, I like the look of that wagon- like the Volvo XC70, too- a rugged wagon is just cool!
But fewer miles and the other things described above. My favorite part of any day is when I drive sideways and so lower COG will always win.
I talked to Legacy dude tonight and I'll meet up with him this weekend and make sure it's not encrusted with cat piss. Time now to look at what I need to look at when I check it out. First up is a bottle of that "is there exhaust in my coolant" stuff
I'm awaiting the VIN from Legacy guy, but if I understand correctly, the 2008 Limited was the VDC. People say you can turn it off to allow for wheelspin but cannot turn off stability control -- does this mean I cannot do AWD snow donuts? Also, I understand it's typically a 90/10 torque split, so that's kind of sad for my purposes.
