which wide band ?

So I'm considering buying a wide band oxygen sensor and gauge kit. Who has bought what with what sort of results?

I have been using innovative motorsports LC2 for a few years. The only issue is the sensor has to be removed from the manifold to do a free air calibration. The calibration needs to be done at least once every 6 months.

I have an aem uego, its nice looking but slow to react. But i got it in a trade so oh well. I suggest something else unless,like me, you get it real cheap. No need to calibrate so thats a plus. Or at least i havent needed too. Maybe i should read more about that..

Innovate has a pretty terrible reputation. I think all 3 that i own have dead controllers and only one of them was probably my fault. And I'm pretty sure the working AEM UEGO i own is from 08-09. I have a Zeitronix i haven't installed yet but i have heard very good things about them.

Zeitronix Zt-2 with Hacker/Tweaker display & Black Box logger. it's worked well for me.

http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/Products.htm

Get one that logs data. That way when you are doing power runs, you can concentrate on the road and not the meter.

There are only a few sensors (bosch and ntk being the biggest) out there, so the difference in the units are the actual units.

I've had an Innovate LM-2 stashed in the glovebox of the Jeep for around 2.5 years with no issues other than the sensor cable coming loose from the unit at one point (fixed by holding it in with a couple zipties). It feeds a narrowband output to my stock ECU, so it's pretty obvious if the unit craps out even temporarily, but I've got no real complaints with it. And it does data logging, which is handy.

I recently bought the Innovate MTX-L to help tune the Webers on my racecar. Just installed in the dash and getting the wiring in. Will give a report once the car is up and running.

rslifkin wrote: I've had an Innovate LM-2 stashed in the glovebox of the Jeep for around 2.5 years with no issues other than the sensor cable coming loose from the unit at one point (fixed by holding it in with a couple zipties). It feeds a narrowband output to my stock ECU, so it's pretty obvious if the unit craps out even temporarily, but I've got no real complaints with it. And it does data logging, which is handy.

This is what I use on the Samurai. Mine is dash mounted and it works, not much else to say.

Vigo wrote: Innovate has a pretty terrible reputation. I think all 3 that i own have dead controllers and only one of them was probably my fault.

I think that was early ones. Apparently the newer ones are much better.

Forgot to mention. I have a couple of autometer ones i got as part of a big parts package deal, but i would recommend to stay away from them because they output 0-4v instead of 0-5 for some reason which makes feeding them to a datalogger a little more annoying because you have to redefine the Volts/afr relationship. And they have no narrowband output.

Back when I was tuning the Haltech, I purchased an Innovate LM-1. It did what it needed to do and I never had a bit of trouble with it. It's laying around here somewhere. I assume it still works.

I have an Innovate LC-1 in an autocross car and an MTX-L in my DD Miata. No issues with either one after 3 years on each.

What (exactly) are you using it for? I agree with alfa if you don't have an ecu that will log for you, and you are trying to tune. Also anything NTK based can work better at low o2 content (helpful with some fuels and high power).

I have had an LC-1 in my car since... 2010? No issues whatsoever. The sensors don't like it when I let the oil go overfull so the engine ingests a quart or so in spectacular fashion, so I can't fault it for that. Plus new sensors are only about $35.

I'm also extremely anal retentive about making sure it is grounded any time it is powered up, and that it is powered up any time a sensor is installed and the engine is running. You know, like it says in the manual.

I'm a little saddened that the LC-1 is out of production. I've been installing LC-2s in cars with good success, but I don't know how cheap the O2 is for replacement. The LC-1 used the same sensor as, say, an '01 Golf 1.8t.

Knurled wrote: I'm a little saddened that the LC-1 is out of production. I've been installing LC-2s in cars with good success, but I don't know how cheap the O2 is for replacement. The LC-1 used the same sensor as, say, an '01 Golf 1.8t.

If the LC-2 still uses the older style Bosch LSU 4.2 sensor like my LM-2 does (and the LC-1), it's the same dirt cheap unit. If it doesn't need free air cal, then it's the newer LSU 4.9 sensor and I'm not sure what those cost.

I don't know the alphanumeric jibbajabba. The LC-1 used an O2 with a large connector, the LC-2 uses an O2 with a small connector. Both need to be free-air calibrated.

I have never once recalibrated my LC-1, even when installing a new sensor. Just plug in and go.

I've had an innovate LM-1 hardwired into MS2 for a few years now, with no issues. Just needs periodic calibration, which I'm realizing I haven't done in quite a while.

Had one LC1 (one of the later ones) crap out in the E30; they sent me a new controller and all was well. It's been going for probably 5 years now, and I think my own crappy grounding was the reason for the failure. The wagon has an LC2 in it, and while I vastly prefer this setup from an installation and packaging point of view, something has already failed and it's only been 7k miles. I'm hoping it's just the sensor, though I'm not sure what would cause it to fail. Haven't gotten around to replacing it since I run open loop all the time.

I really like the NTK AFX Powerdex I have. It's been inside 2 different vehicles at this point and will probably continue moving through them.

impulsive wrote: Zeitronix Zt-2 with Hacker/Tweaker display & Black Box logger. it's worked well for me. http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/Products.htm

This. Their support is amazing.

I don't plan on datalogging (wouldn't know how or what to do with it anyhow). Need to monitor changes I'm making to see if its getting richer or leaner. Righ now all have to go by is fuel mileage and exhaust smell.

Gearheadotaku wrote: I don't plan on datalogging (wouldn't know how or what to do with it anyhow). Need to monitor changes I'm making to see if its getting richer or leaner. Righ now all have to go by is fuel mileage and exhaust smell.

Um, that's what data logging will tell you, without having to watch the gauge bouncing around like a crack addict watching crack dispensing pachinko machine while driving.

The LC-1 for example allows you to monitor the output via a serial cable, which you can connect to a laptop and run their free software to monitor and record.

Then you put the data into a spreadsheet and graph the results.

You can also compare different results to track changes, etc.

right, but if the A/F averages closer to 14.7 I'm moving in the right direction. Yes, I understand it doesn't sit in on place, but if I never see leaner than 11.1 I know its way to rich.

Stefan (Not Bruce) wrote:

Gearheadotaku wrote: I don't plan on datalogging (wouldn't know how or what to do with it anyhow). Need to monitor changes I'm making to see if its getting richer or leaner. Righ now all have to go by is fuel mileage and exhaust smell.

Um, that's what data logging will tell you, without having to watch the gauge bouncing around like a crack addict watching crack dispensing pachinko machine while driving. The LC-1 for example allows you to monitor the output via a serial cable, which you can connect to a laptop and run their free software to monitor and record. Then you put the data into a spreadsheet and graph the results. You can also compare different results to track changes, etc.

I put widebands in carbureted cars all the time. I have an AEM gauge setup that I use stand-alone with a cigarette lighter plug for non-permanent tuning in carbed cars. It's really easy to work with without datalogging. I don't know what you'd datalog, anyway, without adding a bunch of other sensors to the mix. It doesn't swing wildly around unless you're at idle with a fun camshaft, at which point any O2 readings are completely useless anyway.

Just today I drove a supercharged stroked SBC with the "bottom of the page" Thumpr camshaft on it, that we installed a wideband on for carb fine-tweaking. (The guy wanted it installed permanently, so we sold him one ) It's actually kind of interesting, if you somehow went deaf while driving you can tell when it is burble-bumple-brap-lump crackle-cam or when you're accelerating hard enough to run smoothly just by watching the wideband, it will be in the 13-12:1 range when running smooth and in the 15-17:1 range when cackling, even though your nose tells you that it is pig rich O2s measure OXYGEN, a misfire will make an O2 read lean, even a wideband...