Who Killed The Electric Car

Chris_V wrote: And it's impossible for there to be any sudden demand shifts, because it's impossible to make enough EVs at once to cause that sort of demand shift.

'The merely difficult we do immediately. The impossible takes a few minutes longer.'

Jensenman wrote:

Nashco wrote:

Jensenman wrote: It's quite possible something like the Volt could sell under those conditions. It's a hybrid, just like the Prius. Note that in my post (and matt's) we were both speaking of 'pure' EV's, which are the thread subject. As we both said, with current battery technology EV's won't compete with straight gas, diesel, hybrid or alcohol fueled vehicles.

The Volt isn't just like a Prius, the Volt will operate on pure battery power for an extended period at all speeds, not just low speeds like the Prius (40 miles is the number GM keeps repeating). The gas engine is not directly connected to the wheels, unlike the Prius. In that sense, it shares a whole heck of a lot with "pure" EVs, except instead of putting a trailer with a generator behind it for long trips, you have the generator under the hood. In reality, the Volt is probably the type of vehicle GM should have done instead of the EV1 back in the day, there were soooo many hurdles to jump with the EV1...as the movie points out. Bryce

Allow the hairsplitting to commence. You are right on the money about an extended range hybrid being the best solution in the EV1 era. From what I see, the creation of the EV1 was driven by the 1990 Kalifornia mandate that there be 2% 'zero emission vehicles' on the road by, IIRC, 1998 or 2000. http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/zevprog/zevprog.htm That mandate has been rolled back several times. Unfortunately, an extended range hybrid like the Volt is not zero emission, just extremely low emissions. Hence the EV1. http://www.greencar.com/articles/20-truths-gm-ev1-electric-car.php

I agree the legislation forced the EV1 hand, but at the same time I think hindsight shows us that there are/were legal loopholes to be had with something like the Volt powertrain compared to the EV1 powertrain. The Volt is zero emissions....for 40 miles at a time (or however they want to spin it). Alas, hindsight is hindsight and I think GM learned a hell of a lot from that lesson. Think? Maybe that's the wrong word. Hope, I hope GM learned a hell of a lot from that lesson.

Bryce

I say we play god and make some giant corn and turn kansas and nebraska into ethanol farms.

[Homer] 'Mmmmm.... ethanol.... mmmm.' [/Homer]

mrdontplay wrote: I say we play god and make some giant corn and turn kansas and nebraska into ethanol farms.

That's about all that they're good for anyway.

You ain't from Missouri, are ya?

I just saw the movie, it was pretty interesting (not as one-sided as I expected). The one thing they never mentioned was the actual estimated production cost of the EV1. They did mention the paying off of the lease (although they never gave a number), but that likely has little to do with the actual cost (even in full production). Apparently it was likely north of $50,000, even the lease payoff was around $40,000.

I can see how GM might have been upset by effectively being forced to create a car. Realistically though, with the numbers being produced (they only made a little over 2000) even allowing the full list of the interested buyers shown in the show (4000) multiplied many times I really don't see them making any money on them.

Honestly, with all the conspiracy stuff they brought up, I think it really comes down to money and profit (as in none). I do tend to agree with the statements about the the fuel cell in the movie though, not really the "solution" that it is presented as being.