why are classic cars worth money?

I was having a discussion along these lines with a friend the other day. Crunching some numbers (even if many of them are best guesses) gives some context to understand the situation. 
 

The numbers below are wild guesses, but even if they are way off, the margin for error doesn't paint a rosy global picture for air-cooled 911 availability.
 

Total air-cooled 911 production somewhere around 443,000. Some were wrecked, rusted, destroyed, but they have always been iconic, so let's be optimistic and say 75% are still around...332,000 or so. Could be more or less, feel free to adjust the number up or down if you think I'm way off. How many are for sale at a given time? 5%? With the 75% survival rate, that would be around 16,000 cars available for sale around the world if true. Even doubled at 10% for sale, still not many cars, and I suspect the number at play at a given time is probably lower.

Around 209,000,000 or so people of an adult age in the United States potentially in the market for a car. Even if only 0.05% of them are enthusiasts who want a car and think a 911 is awesome, that's still a million people. Let's take another wild-ass guess and say 10% of those enthusiasts have or could muster the means to actually buy one (about 9% of American adults earn six figures plus)...that's still roughly 100,000 people...and that's just the US. If we compare these potential buyers to our theoretical global supply, and competition is still going to be fierce.
 

How many adult enthusiasts with means in Germany? How about Japan? The UK? Canada? India? The Middle East? The rest of Europe? Maybe fewer Russian oligarchs these days, but plenty of wealthy elite in China and SE Asia...and so on.

Then think about cars where 20,000 examples were made worldwide for the production run...or 5,000 total...or 200 total...

Yup, supply and demand.

A while back I was talking to the owner of our local guitar shop about a smaller, niche company and wondered whether or not he's ever had any come through the shop.

The top of this big display cabinet, he said, represents all the people into Fender and Gibson guitars. 

And then he pointed to a guitar pick: And this is the group into that guitar that you just asked about. 

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

Nothing comforts anxiety like a little nostalgia.

That is very true, but I don't think nostalgia always has to mean old.

For example, if I were to buy a new Civic Type R, it would have to be Championship White. Why? Because that's the original Type R color. 

I guess what I mean is that sometimes you can scratch that itch without involving something antique. My Fujifilm X100V camera operates like an old rangefinder, yet it features the latest digital guts.

Maybe this helps the OP expand the search. The right car it out there for you–might be old, might be old-ish, might just remind you of old days. 

Everyone has different reasons for liking what they like. Some want something different from the crowd, some want something easier to work on, some want the road feel you can't get from modern cars, and so on.

My 1964 Royal Enfield motorcycle is probably my favorite one to ride. It's a horrible machine compared to my 2008 Triumph Bonneville. For me, it's all about the feelz.

I dumped my E36 M3 because I hated working on it. My hobby car now is a 1966 Ford Falcon that is a simple joy to work on. Absolutely nothing like driving the M3, obviously, but the wrenching aspect is a big part of the hobby for me. 

I lurk in the bottom feeder price range of the hobby though. As good as some cars may be, or as desirable/rare as they are, I just can't grasp the $$ some of them command. I'll never understand paying the admission fee for a Porsche 356, for example.

There are always some unnoticed, unloved choices out there that can provide what you seek without the high price tag.

Tom1200 said:

In reply to LanEvo :

That's where I'm heading; I find 911 prices to be insane right now.

i have been waiting for the 911 "bubble" to burst for years and every time I check they have gone up in value not down.  The funny thing was that I started to think 911's where cool when watching the show Californiacation with David Duchovny where he drove around in a 964 convertible.  

David S. Wallens said:

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

Nothing comforts anxiety like a little nostalgia.

That is very true, but I don't think nostalgia always has to mean old.

For example, if I were to buy a new Civic Type R, it would have to be Championship White. Why? Because that's the original Type R color. 

I guess what I mean is that sometimes you can scratch that itch without involving something antique. My Fujifilm X100V camera operates like an old rangefinder, yet it features the latest digital guts.

Maybe this helps the OP expand the search. The right car it out there for you–might be old, might be old-ish, might just remind you of old days. 

its never a matter of finding the right car. :) its a matter of rationalizing what the right car costs :(

in the end I choose to look at it as being blessed enough to have these kinds of first world problems...  happy days

@David S. Wallens

coincidence that you posted this article the day after this thread was launched?  Probably but the timing couldn't have been better.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/price-nostalgia-column/

David S. Wallens said:

Longer answer, a vintage car has a feel that's beyond the numbers. A minivan can out-drag my air-cooled 911, but the Porsche has a feeling that can't be beat–the smell, the view, the sound of the doors closing, the feel of its mechanicalness.

And then there's nostalgia. If you wanted a '57 Chevy, GTO, E30 M3, RX-7 TT or whatever in school and couldn't afford it, there's a strong chance that you'll want one (badly) once you can. 

David hits the nail dead center. I could not have stated it better. It's not just a car, it's an entire experience that a new car can't equal. These are the reasons I bought a 31 year old Bentley.

Glad the responses are centered on the joy of ownership and not the anguish of cost over years.  Get a quote for rebuilding a 911 SC motor and you will see what I mean.  I have owned some sort of "classic", over 15 years old, limited production, not a daily driver most of my adult life.  For me getting stuck in a money pit vehicle kills a lot of the joy experienced during a nice sunday drive.  So while your heart thinks it wants a 911 think about your brain and your wallet too.

In reply to porschenut :

At some point, you have to forget about the money. 

A Bentley 6.75 rebuild would be off the charts. IIRC the main bearing set is $1100. Add the rod bearing set at $1100. Pistons, rings and liners are another $11100.00. 

porschenut said:

Get a quote for rebuilding a 911 SC motor and you will see what I mean.  

Streetwiseguy said:

I jokingly tell people that they can track the value of a classic car by computing the age people were when the got their first bit of nookie in the back seat.  The value rises until the point where the nookie is no longer a practical application of effort, then it starts to taper off.

None of the cars I have ever valued HAS a back seat!  

Toyman! said:

In reply to porschenut :

At some point, you have to forget about the money. 

A Bentley 6.75 rebuild would be off the charts. IIRC the main bearing set is $1100. Add the rod bearing set at $1100. Pistons, rings and liners are another $11100.00. 

 

the average monthly salary globally is around $1480.  so bearings that cost $1100 makes sense...  

For some people (like me) old things can provide a connection to another place and time. Interacting with that thing can bring on fond memories of good times that you want to relive. It provides comfort in a time in someone's life where they may be uncomfortable. Picking up an old guitar, listening to a favorite album, or popping an old video game cartridge into the console you had as a kid can do wonders for stress management and make you forget about the troubles of the current day. 

With cars, it's all of that and more. Old cars, like my pair of vehicles from 1979, are admittedly not as good at being cars as something newer. They constantly need something to keep them on the roads, they aren't nearly as efficient, and they don't offer the safety and creature comforts the newer stuff has. But they offer a unique experience and a connection to the past that recalls fond memories of being a kid and riding around in cars like these. Every time I drive one, it's a blast. It's like going back in time! With the upgrades I've made to both, they can exist today as a decent car yet retain that connection.

The cost thing is an unfortunate result of a lot of people sharing the same desire for this experience. But as said above, there are ways around this. My truck, for example, is one. Everyone wants a Squarebody GM truck or an old Ford, including myself. Prices for those, even in rough shape, have been stupid for years. When I bought my Dodge in 2019, no one wanted them except for weirdo Mopar people, so I got it for pennies on the dollar of what an equivalent Ford or Chevy/GMC cost. Prices have raised exponentially since, but there are similar "also ran" deals out there today for all sorts of cars. 

And David brought up an excellent point: Nostalgia doesn't have to solely relate to old things. One of my favorite cars was my old 1989 Nissan Maxima SE. It is still my benchmark of what a good daily driver should be. Mine was white with a black interior with cool directional wheels, and it was equipped with the Bose radio and a sunroof. It made 160hp with the VG30 V6. Back in 2011, I ordered a Mazda 3 hatch in white with a black interior and cool directional wheels, equipped with the Bose radio and a sunroof. It made right around 160hp. Only difference was the hatch body and the 6-speed manual instead of the 4-speed auto the Maxima had. It was new, but instantly nostalgic. 

ClearWaterMS said:

@David S. Wallens

coincidence that you posted this article the day after this thread was launched?  Probably but the timing couldn't have been better.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/price-nostalgia-column/

Ha, I think that was a coincidence. But, yeah, what price are you willing to pay, if any? 

Tony Sestito said:

For some people (like me) old things can provide a connection to another place and time. Interacting with that thing can bring on fond memories of good times that you want to relive. It provides comfort in a time in someone's life where they may be uncomfortable. Picking up an old guitar, listening to a favorite album, or popping an old video game cartridge into the console you had as a kid can do wonders for stress management and make you forget about the troubles of the current day.

But that's why you want them, not why they're worth money.

It's a function of supply and demand, with more emphasis on the demand side. Which is why vintage motocross bikes, with rare exception, are practically worthless. They are definitely not in great supply, but the demand is practically non existent.

Peabody said:

Tony Sestito said:

For some people (like me) old things can provide a connection to another place and time. Interacting with that thing can bring on fond memories of good times that you want to relive. It provides comfort in a time in someone's life where they may be uncomfortable. Picking up an old guitar, listening to a favorite album, or popping an old video game cartridge into the console you had as a kid can do wonders for stress management and make you forget about the troubles of the current day.

But that's why you want them, not why they're worth money.

It's a function of supply and demand, with more emphasis on the demand side. Which is why vintage motocross bikes, with rare exception, are practically worthless. They are definitely not in great supply, but the demand is practically non existent.

I illustrated this in my next comment: 

"The cost thing is an unfortunate result of a lot of people sharing the same desire for this experience. "

Supply and demand is of course the driver of this. There are a limited number of the commodity, and the demand is through the roof. Rarity is not the only driver. You can have something that's 1-of-1, and if no one but you wants that item, then the monetary value is next to zero. 

Yes, I wasn't singling you out, more or less the people who are answering the question, what is it about classics that makes you want them, not what makes them valuable. 

While supply and demand has been mentioned it's a bit deeper than that.

For there to be demand the car has to really capture peoples imaginations.  Case in point; several people here have mentioned racing 1200s yet they don't bring the value that 510s do.

Keeping the Datsun theme; you can build a 240Z that will turn the same lap times as a 911S of the same period. Same goes for a street car performance yet 911s are worth 5-10 times as much.

Some of you will call this demand be really you need a car to capture peoples imagination with a certain level of mystique for it to be really sought after. Basically the car needs to be the "it" girl.

Supply, demand and nostalgia...  

There are enough Gen Xers who grew up watching the Dukes of Hazzard to keep '68-70 Charger values fairly high for at least another couple of decades.  High enough that while I might be able to afford one some day, I'm still not sure I can justify the cost.  Nostalgia isn't worth that much to me. 

I'm sort of with ddavid and playing in the bottom-feeder level of the hobby. Collecting cheap and fun little British cars like potato chips. 

On the flip side of the supply/demand/nostalgia equation for me is a mild interest in vintage era downhill racing bikes.  I enjoy looking at pictures of them on FB.  Nostalgia continues to make me procrastinate selling my own bike from the late 90s - despite the fact I doubt I'll ever ride it again.  They are fun bikes, but a modern trail bike is more fun for an average rider like me.

David S. Wallens said:

(Very related, coming up soon in Classic Motorsports: air-cooled 911 vs 996/997.)

out of curiosity did this article get published?  i keep "watching" 3.2/964 cars as well as 997's on BaT every day.   

ClearWaterMS said:

David S. Wallens said:

(Very related, coming up soon in Classic Motorsports: air-cooled 911 vs 996/997.)

out of curiosity did this article get published?  i keep "watching" 3.2/964 cars as well as 997's on BaT every day.   

It's in the January issue of Classic Motorsports. It goes to press next week. 

David S. Wallens said:

ClearWaterMS said:

David S. Wallens said:

(Very related, coming up soon in Classic Motorsports: air-cooled 911 vs 996/997.)

out of curiosity did this article get published?  i keep "watching" 3.2/964 cars as well as 997's on BaT every day.   

It's in the January issue of Classic Motorsports. It goes to press next week. 

now i'm going to need to buy a copy of Classic Motorsports January issue (nice sale my good man, nice sale)

In reply to ClearWaterMS :

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