AMEC in New York ran on an oval for the past couple of years, but lost the site when the owner converted the oval to a dirt track. It was pretty interesting to run a couple of laps around. The downside was a 6 hour round trip for autox. Good thing I have a few venues that are closer to take care of the addiction
Duke wrote:Keith wrote: But we can't build every course for them or we'll only be able to autox at Bonneville.*Pave the Planet! One World - One People - One Slab of Asphalt*
old school! alt.pave.the.earth 
Javelin wrote: None of you guys must have *ever* driven at an HPDE / Open Track day. Wow, never expected whining like that here...
Exactly. And that's why I haven't done an open track day - I don't have a car I'm willing to ball up and walk away from.
Javelin wrote: None of you guys must have *ever* driven at an HPDE / Open Track day. Wow, never expected whining like that here...
HPDE (no, I haven't done one... yet) is great, but it's not an autocross. I'm compeative. I want to win. To win at autocross, you have to try to find 100%. One of the great things about autocross, in my opinion, is that it is set up in such a way that if you exceed 100%, you don't wreck your car or get hurt. You go back to grid and try again a few minutes later.
That event looks cool, but it's not really an autocross.
Javelin wrote:Ian F wrote:None of you guys must have *ever* driven at an HPDE / Open Track day. Wow, never expected whining like that here...turboswede wrote:Exactly. I wouldn't call this "cool". I call it "rich-man-stupid". If your car means so little to you that you don't care about pushing a wee-bit too far... then have at it... Me? berkeley that. I'll stick to boring-ass parking lots until I can afford a real race car with real safety equipment.mtownneon wrote:The question the OP put forth was why SCCA autocrosses aren't this "cool" The reason is explained above, not too mention the safety aspects of the cars potentially impacting the outside walls.yamaha wrote: Aren't scca solo safety standards supposed to keep vehicles from exceeding 75mph(or something close to that range)This event isn't SCCA sanctioned, it's an independent pro-touring organization event so SCCA standards don't apply.
I have. Several times. I've even spun. Twice. In the last Open Track Day I've done. In my numbered Shelby. Scared me bad enough that I took the car home and parked it. I wasn't even pushing it all that hard, but lost focus for one second on a wet track.
The saving grace? It was on a proper race track with plenty of run off room with flaggers to warn drivers that I'd spun to the inside of turn 11 at PIR, etc.
Since then? I've gone on to do some wheel/wheel racing (in a numbered Shelby, that was pre-wrecked) and autocross in parking lots with my street car.
My first ever autox was in my 96 Impala SS at a non scca sanctioned event. It was in a lot at a community college in Cincy.
It used a combination of three curb island filled lots and the connecting roads as well as a little trip around the firestation in between a parked trailer and a water tower. Top speeds where up in the 70's.
My biggest moment was cutting across the front of the firestation which was concrete then turning back onto asphalt really upset the car. I got it way sideways, full opposite lock, heading directly for the water tower. Full power and somehow it hooked and I shot in between the tower and trailer onto the long straight. The tires where smoking all the way through till I braked for a decreasing radius turn. The car downshifted back into first halfway through the turn again sending it sideways and another smoke filled run to the finish.
It was a blast. Yeah there where light poles and curbs and buildings and trailers and water towers. But not one person that entire day hit anyhthing. The temps where in the high 30's as well.
I think some of you need to man up a little
We have a very cool event coming up next month on the infield kart track at Daytona Speedway that isn't too much different from the original poster's event. And it's SCCA legal.
I know SCCA is looking at running more Solo events on racetracks because finding good sites is getting harder. The National Tour at Nashville last year was a sort of a feeler event...but since 2 cars made contact (1 with a soft wall, 1 with a hard wall) we'll see if that scares off SCCA.
Ian F wrote:Javelin wrote: None of you guys must have *ever* driven at an HPDE / Open Track day. Wow, never expected whining like that here...Exactly. And that's why I haven't done an open track day - I don't have a car I'm willing to ball up and walk away from.
You're really missing out on a ton of fun, and your autocross experience is a bonus. First of all, most tracks won't let you out on an Open Track day without a racing license, and you don't want to be there anyway. You want to do an HPDE with an established club. In car & classroom instruction is mandatory for 1st timers, and instructors won't sign you off until they're comfortable with your car control & decision making.
The best thing about these events is that you get to see how much more important the driver is than the car. You will go out there in your MINI or 325 and pass people in Vettes and STI's. You will hook up with someone turning the same lap times and trade lead & follow positions. You will pass & be passed. You will have a blast and your head will spin.
Not so big secret - People that spin or crash are driving beyond their ability - don't drive beyond your ability.
Give it a try. You'll be more than fine - You'll be hooked....
jstein77 wrote: We have a very cool event coming up next month on the infield kart track at Daytona Speedway that isn't too much different from the original poster's event. And it's SCCA legal.
That looks a lot like the course they run on the disused kart/road course at Englishtown, NJ (drag strip) for Waterfest. They built a road course there some years ago, but apparently it doesn't have adequate run-off space so it's never been used for actual wheel-to-wheel racing. Does make for a fun auto-x course from the videos I've seen. Looks a lot like a real-life Project Gotham run.
I'd join that event if I could. Only $50 entry fee? Most auto crossed are at lest $35, that's a bargain for a course like that!
jstein77 wrote: We have a very cool event coming up next month on the infield kart track at Daytona Speedway that isn't too much different from the original poster's event. And it's SCCA legal.
That looks like fun.
The bottom line: Some people are not going to take the risk to autoX on a course that looks like it could total their car.
When I autocrossed my '06 350Z in 2009, I was not willing to risk the car. No amount of "manning up" was going to make that cost-benefit analysis work out.
Now, in my $1300 SE-R, of course I would go to an autocross event held in a circle track oval! I wouldn't be happy to ball it up, but it wouldn't be a huge financial blow.
Putting an autoX in a venue with a bunch of concrete walls changes it from a "virtually risk-free" event, to a "this could possibly, if very unlikely, total my car" event. And that changes the people willing to participate and the cars they're willing to bring. I for one would like to keep the SCCA autocross as a safe place for middle-class people to bring their new-ish cars and have a good time.
Lastly, yes most crashes occur when you exceed your own or your car's abilities, who the berkeley wants to spend all this money to drive on a race course and never risk exceeding their abilities? I notice that many professional race car drivers go off during every race I've ever seen, I guess they just don't know how to drive within their abilities.
For reference, I have done autoX, rallyX, track days, 2 Chump/Lemons type events, and about 30 laps of the Nurburgring.
Sky_Render wrote:jstein77 wrote: We have a very cool event coming up next month on the infield kart track at Daytona Speedway that isn't too much different from the original poster's event. And it's SCCA legal.That looks like fun.
It was, and that was my very first run with the turbo Sentra last September. Darn thing was sideways everywhere; I looked like I was dirt tracking it. Now that I've got the handling tamed down, it ought to be even better this time. I'm really looking forward to it. It's also cool watching the race cars fly by on the banking; brings me back to the 80's when I was racing up there.
Keith wrote: K&K autocross insurance specifies a max speed of 70 mph, if memory serves. Otherwise you have to insure it as a high speed event.
That's not actually true. Partially, and easy to interpret the situation that way, but for sure K&K isn't specifying a top speed.
Having gone through the whole insurance thing with my club on a national level, you quickly find out that the insurance companies are actually fairly open in their coverage. The #1 item is that you follow your own rules.
And that's where the idea that the insurance is forcing rule X.
The reality is that sanctioning body Y says that rule X is required. And since rule X has to do with safety, it's now required by insurance.
If you want to see this in action, all you need to do is visit multuple club events- and know that there are only 2 companies in the US that provide motorsports insurance. And both of them use the same underwriting group... So for all of the clubs who have slighly different safety rules, they somehow all have the same insurance.
Our club allows minors with a license to compete as long as they have a waiver signed by their parents/guardian. Another local club has no restrictions on what helmet is legal for autocross. IIRC, SCCA's own open track rules allow open cars w/o roll bars. AROC does not. Etc etc etc.
It's all about your own club's rules. Which is why I was a major PITA when it came to making up new safety rules for the club. Good idea in principle, but what does it really mean for the club?
Sorry for the digression.
Like Adrian- I did an SCCA event at Flat Rock. It was interesting. I also did the GRM Challenge in 2000-'02. That was a very fast autocross on the Gainseville track in the back 40. I think I calculated me doing 70mph on the sweeper (8000rpm, 2nd gear, with all the numbers crunched- and I'm sure of the 8000rpm, since it was the hard rev limit, and I hit it).
Even having done a lot of track days, I'm not a big fan of super fast autocrosses.
We did a similar SCCA event a few years ago at Riverhead Raceway, A 1/4 mile oval on Long Island.
2 dorifto's showed up, along with the usual autocrossers.
Guess who the 2 cars were, that whacked the wall and made it a one-time affair.
Funny thing was, even thought it was a little 1/4 oval, they still made the "minimum XX feet from anything hard" rule the scca has. What is it? 25 ft? Cant quite remember...
I quit participating in an annual autox event in Bradenton that's held in a "toilet bowl" with a similar layout to the OP's after witnessing several spins and crashes. The transition from banked turn to the comparatively flatter straight opened the door for mistakes. I'll stick to parking lots and airports where my wallet is less at risk. OTOH, the kart track course looks way fun.
Sky_Render wrote:jstein77 wrote: We have a very cool event coming up next month on the infield kart track at Daytona Speedway that isn't too much different from the original poster's event. And it's SCCA legal.That looks like fun.
Seriously. Must run nice and fast with so few opportunities to knock cones down constantly. Looks like a lot more fun than a slow, technical course, that's for sure.
alfadriver wrote:Keith wrote: K&K autocross insurance specifies a max speed of 70 mph, if memory serves. Otherwise you have to insure it as a high speed event.That's not actually true. Partially, and easy to interpret the situation that way, but for sure K&K isn't specifying a top speed. Having gone through the whole insurance thing with my club on a national level, you quickly find out that the insurance companies are actually fairly open in their coverage. The #1 item is that you follow your own rules. And that's where the idea that the insurance is forcing rule X.
That's based on my experience using K&K for events that are not sanctioned. There are no rules from any other source but myself and K&K. And the line between a "low speed event" and "high speed" is right around 70 mph from what I recall. I would pull out my policy to confirm but it's just not that important to me But there was a speed range for an event to fall under the "autocross" checkbox on my insurance form.
We run our events on a kart track.
I've done a kart track autocross, and it was awesome. Much, much better than the typical SCCA parking lot but with none of the drawbacks of the short track (banks, concrete walls, etc). I'd love for a "high-ish" speed type of autocross series based on kart tracks, infield tracks, etc. Think 75-80 top speed and courses like that one ^^^ up there.
In reply to ShadowSix:
Sally
Speaking of Drifting, the OP looks a lot like the course D1 Grand Prix and Formula Drift used at Irwindale. The way they had it set up, it actually wasn't too bad, I drove on it a few times and it was a decent course and not too scary. I wasn't doing it sideways, though.
I've ran several banked oval autocrosses with PCA and SCMC.
It was a lot of fun, but it got boring pretty quick in a stock Mustang. It is the only autocross that I've ever ran that I felt that I needed more horsepower or more RPM's to go faster.
Keith wrote:alfadriver wrote:That's based on my experience using K&K for events that are not sanctioned. There are no rules from any other source but myself and K&K. And the line between a "low speed event" and "high speed" is right around 70 mph from what I recall. I would pull out my policy to confirm but it's just not that important to meKeith wrote: K&K autocross insurance specifies a max speed of 70 mph, if memory serves. Otherwise you have to insure it as a high speed event.That's not actually true. Partially, and easy to interpret the situation that way, but for sure K&K isn't specifying a top speed. Having gone through the whole insurance thing with my club on a national level, you quickly find out that the insurance companies are actually fairly open in their coverage. The #1 item is that you follow your own rules. And that's where the idea that the insurance is forcing rule X.
Interesting- our club had one rider that covered both high and low speed events. So all of our insurance restrictions were based on our own rules.
We can get insurance for either by simply checking a box, but I believe there's a difference in premiums. Dunno, our facility keeps max speeds to about 70 mph thanks to simple physics so it's not something I ever investigated closely. The definition of an autocross did stick in my mind though.
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