Often as I drive down the road I play a game I call "can I use that engine in the Challenge." As I'm seeing Chevy truck after Chevy truck with 350s it got me wondering why Ford didn't build more vehicles with the 351. Thoughts?
Often as I drive down the road I play a game I call "can I use that engine in the Challenge." As I'm seeing Chevy truck after Chevy truck with 350s it got me wondering why Ford didn't build more vehicles with the 351. Thoughts?
Eh? I'm guessing you are referring to the Cleveland variant. A ton of full-size Detroit iron came with the Windsor.
Wiki said: "Around 8.6 million 351W engines were manufactured between 1969 and 1996 at the Windsor Engine Plant Number One."
Don't forget the 351M.
Ford made piles of 351's.
It's just that I see 5.0 after 5.0 but normally I don't see 351s until you get to the F250s and up. But it seems like 95% of the the Chevy trucks have 350s. Maybe I'm just not noticing the 351 Fords.
Eh, I think there were a lot of 305's in trucks from GM, we had one in an '88 1/2 ton. Thing could have used valve guides and seals at about 65k miles.
Stampie said:It's just that I see 5.0 after 5.0 but normally I don't see 351s until you get to the F250s and up. But it seems like 95% of the the Chevy trucks have 350s. Maybe I'm just not noticing the 351 Fords.
95% of Chevy truck owners say they have a 350. Since they aren’t really easy to check quickly like a 302 vs 351, a lot of them may be 305s. Although at least GM put the 350 into their half ton trucks. Other than the Lightning, I don’t think Ford put a 351W in a half ton since sometime in the eighties (or ever, I’m not an expert). They do seem fairly common in 1990’s F250s, though.
Take rate on half tons is way higher than 3/4 ton, and as noted above, other than some special versions, your engine choices for the Ford half tons were mainly the 300-6 and the 302-8
The Broncos came with 351s, similar to how the 2 door Tahoes came with 350s instead of 305s.
Another suck was Ford stopped having a good gas engine in their trucks in 97 and continued this trend up till the new 5.0, Chevy managed to keep hot rod friendly engines going till present day.
Ive owned 5 f150s built between 84-92 and all of them except one was a 351. There pretty common here because tow package trucks were 351/c6 and most surviving trucks from that era were purchased by farmers for dragging grain bins. The 8mpg unloaded made the 13-15 the 302 managed alot better option if you werent planning to haul often.
dropstep said:The 8mpg unloaded made the 13-15 the 302 managed alot better option if you werent planning to haul often.
that's what i've always been told about 351's, the mileage of a 460 with the power of a 302.
You could also get the 351 as an option in the grand marquis from 86 to 91. The only ltd crown vic that got the 351 after 1980 we’re the p72 cop cars.
What seemed odd to me was how Ford had a 4.9 liter V8 and a 4.9 liter inline six in the same vehicles, and everyone seemed to love the inliner, and almost no one actually had one.
edizzle89 said:dropstep said:The 8mpg unloaded made the 13-15 the 302 managed alot better option if you werent planning to haul often.
that's what i've always been told about 351's, the mileage of a 460 with the power of a 302.
The engines used in the 86 to 91 grand Marquis were around 150 hp for the 302 with fuel injection and 180 for the 351 with a carburetor.
edizzle89 said:dropstep said:The 8mpg unloaded made the 13-15 the 302 managed alot better option if you werent planning to haul often.
that's what i've always been told about 351's, the mileage of a 460 with the power of a 302.
I only drive 4 miles a day but my f250 industrial package truck with 351 got identical mileage too my 90 f150 ext cab 351 truck while having half the hauling/towing capacity. Stock smog era 351's are certainly a weird option. I feel like i need a 460 truck just too compare now.
I'm pretty sure you could get the 351W in 92-96 F150s and Broncos. Maybe pre-92 stuff, I don't know.
But in general, Ford seems content to rely on smaller engines. 302 vs 350, 4.6 vs LS1, etc.
Will said:I'm pretty sure you could get the 351W in 92-96 F150s and Broncos. Maybe pre-92 stuff, I don't know.
But in general, Ford seems content to rely on smaller engines. 302 vs 350, 4.6 vs LS1, etc.
Ford had a 255 v8 in the 80s and were actually planning on phasing out the 302.
Ford always had a thing for tiny V8s. The original short deck Windsor was only 221 cubes, the old Y block it replaced came as small as 239, the smallest Ford Flathead V8 was only 136 cubic inches.
The 351W was a very common engine in the F150 throughout the 80's up to 96. The line up was 300 I-6 -150hp, 302 V8 180hp and 351 V8 210 hp. (note these are 87-up fuel injected ratings). Same powertrains on Broncos of these years. The 300 and 302 could be had with a 5 speed manual or 4 speed automatic, the 351 was automatic only. They are not uncommon at all. The original Lightning truck (1993?)also used a 351W but with upgraded HCI.
The 300 / 5 speed combo was popular because Ford offered steep discounts if you chose that powertrain. This was for CAFE ratings. It was rated slightly better than the 302 V8 by EPA. In the real world there was little difference in MPG.
The 300 was legendary for its torque. In reality it was mediocre at best. It delivered lackluster acceleration and fuel economy. they did seem to be bullet proof but probably not significantly better than the V8 options. I'm something of a Ford fan and have owned 2 I-6 F150's so I'm talking from experience here. I wouldn't attempt a drag race with a 1/2 ton Chevy with a 4.3 V6.
The 302 was a nice in-between option - just like the 305 GM. It had more HP and better acceleration (and equal or better torque) to the i6 and was a popular upgrade. It also felt and sounded like a V8 and if a person was so inclined there were/are volumes of speed parts available thanks to it's popularity in the Mustang.
The 351 was a significant upgrade in terms of torque and was mostly found in higher end half tons although I'm fairly certain it could be optioned in the lower trims too. 210hp sure seems lame today but it was comparable with the GM 350 of that era.
I've never seen a 351 Panther from this era, though supposedly some of the LEO versions had them. The basic 302 was 150-160hp in this era with the low performance heads. Truck heads flowed a bit better (I think these were rated between 180-200hp over the years) and with H.O. cam (and different firing order) the 302 was rated at 225 hp.
MotorsportsGordon said:edizzle89 said:dropstep said:The 8mpg unloaded made the 13-15 the 302 managed alot better option if you werent planning to haul often.
that's what i've always been told about 351's, the mileage of a 460 with the power of a 302.
The engines used in the 86 to 91 grand Marquis were around 150 hp for the 302 with fuel injection and 180 for the 351 with a carburetor.
And there were a lot of old guys who ordered the 351 so they wouldn't have to fight with that newfangled fuel injection...so they got a variable venturi motorcraft carb instead. Not a good choice.
Don't forget the E series too!
I had a 1990 E250 conversion van that I bought for "truck" duties since I was too poor to afford an actual truck. It was a 351W/E4OD. Got 8mpg regardless. I did a small tune-up (plugs, wires, disrto cap and rotor) and was rewarded 1mpg for my efforts.
Pickup? Who needs a pickup?
In reply to seadoorider :
I stand corrected. Did not realize the 351 was so widely available in Ford half tons.
stanger_missle said:Don't forget the E series too!
I had a 1990 E250 conversion van that I bought for "truck" duties since I was too poor to afford an actual truck. It was a 351W/E4OD. Got 8mpg regardless. I did a small tune-up (plugs, wires, disrto cap and rotor) and was rewarded 1mpg for my efforts.
Pickup? Who needs a pickup?
In fairness, I've always thought that vans often do truck stuff better than trucks anyway.
When I was a kid I knew fords, Off the top.... a Cleveland was a 4bbl. engine and the windsor was 2bbl.'s and FI ,there were Lots of windsors but not a lot of Cleveland's . some of the sportier versions of Fords be it Mustang to Galaxy's could be had with Cleveland engine's. Pantera's had them as well as a Stronger Block Made in Australia. there are manifolds to convert Windsors to a 4 bbl. but real Cleveland's had Huge ports. the coveted Boss 302 had Cleveland Heads. That may be the reason Ford Hi Po was in the top of the RPM Range.
I had a 95 F150 XLT w/tow package. 351 ci or 5.8 L V8. Still the only V8 I've owned.
302 and 351 both had a 4" bore, so of course the 351 had a longer stroke. That made the 351 "feel" like a truck engine, were as the 302 feels like a mustang engine. The difference in low end and midrange torque. I think thats the same reason why so many people liked the inline six. When it was paired to a manual trans that crazy long and heavy crankshaft makes the engine feel like it isnt going to stall when leaving a stop sign, and the 302 does.
I have a Cleveland or modified 351 sitting on a pallet in my shop I'd give to any grm-er who wants it just to free up the space. My dad picked it up to replace the motor in his bus and didn't realize that you couldn't just swap in any 351.
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