Looking at the new 2018 up JL Jeep wrangler, even in four door form it only has a 3,500lb tow limit. Does that seem ridiculously low for a vehicle int his class with 118.4" wheel base (2.4" longer than the JK)? I would have thought 5K lb's minimum and would have prefered 7,500. That's a big strike against it for towing a trailer.
In reply to Adrian_Thompson :
Do all the JL's engine offerings have that tow limit? Or is it only the 4 cyl models? The Tacoma/4runner is rated for 6500lbs, but it's highly advised you don't tow that much weight. I'd be shocked if the Wrangler could tow more than the Toyotas.
Why? Warrantee protection pure & simple.
All Wranglers have low tow ratings (and always have). The biggest limiting factors are the marshmallow springs, mediocre brakes and beyond that, the drivetrain.
An automatic XJ has a capacity of 5000lbs so yes, that does seem low for a vehicle that's heavier, more powerful, better brakes and longer.
I think it's mostly the soft springs. What makes for a good offroad vehicle strongly conflicts with what makes for a good tow vehicle, and the Wranglers, like most Jeep vehicles, are much more offroad-oriented than towing-oriented.
Soft springs, terrible brakes, and FCA know they will get modified, throw some bigger tires into the mix and it gets worse.
TurnerX19 said:Why? Warrantee protection pure & simple.
Yup. Regardless of what it can actually tow safely, marketing and accounting sets their own tow ratings based on multiple factors that have nothing to do with its capabilities.
Much like every other "rating." Ever notice that trucks always come with exact GVWRs that correspond with DOT cutoffs for truck weight classes? You really think that every F150, C1500, W150, and T100 from the 50s to today are all exactly and equally capable of handling a GVW of 7400 lbs? Unlikely.
Much like getting a driver's license. You can parallel park and use a turn signal in a 4 minute drive around the block, which means you're suddenly equally qualified to drive a newer Corolla or a 1949 IH dump truck with drum brakes and a GVWR of 26,000.
Tow ratings, GVWRs, GCWRs, registration weight classes, driver licensing... all of it is pretty arbitrary.
Just had coffee with Reese (Hippywagon on here) and she pointed out it's not just the soft springs, but also two solid axles, although as buzzboy pointed out the old XJ's could tow 5,000lb.
Right now our pop up camper is 2K lb's empty, but probably at least 3k lb's full so it wouldn't be an issue. The thing is in the future I want to upgrade to a larger hard sided camper. The plan was a Bronco, but circumstances have changed that per my other thread.
Engine cooling capacity could be an issue too. The new models are really packed in under the hood. A proper weight distributing hitch may help with the load. Maybe some airbag style helper springs?
What makes for a good offroad vehicle strongly conflicts with what makes for a good tow vehicle
^100%. Although, the Gladiator is not really any better in this regard despite its much higher rating, but they couldn't get away with marketing a 300hp 'truck' with a 3500lb rating so it gets a substantial tow rating. In reality i expect the Gladiator will tow relatively poorly as well. And comparing ratings to the XJ is sort of a false start because the XJ is a nightmare to tow anything close to 5000lbs with.
In the real world you can tow anything with anything, it's the safely going road speeds and not being an impediment or threat to other drivers that is the real limitation. The modern Wranglers will probably tow over 3500 relatively well if you keep speeds down and don't climb mountains.
buzzboy said:An automatic XJ has a capacity of 5000lbs so yes, that does seem low for a vehicle that's heavier, more powerful, better brakes and longer.
I'm pretty sure that if I had 5000 lbs hooked to the back of my XJ, I'd need low range to get moving and the front wheels would be off the ground.
That said, I have towed a 1966 Cadillac on a strap using a short wheelbase 1967 Land Rover. Didn't quite need low range, but there were no hills.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
You'd be surprised. My ZJ (105.9" wheelbase, so about 5" more than a ZJ and with more power but the same tiny brakes) is rated for 6500 lbs. I've had 6300 lbs worth of ZJ on a car trailer behind it at highway speed for several hours. Provided you stiffen up the rear springs, have good trailer brakes and have appropriate weight distribution it tows pretty decently. It requires a lot more care in setup than a bigger truck would, however. Trailers with lots of windage won't work so well as the shorter wheelbase and lighter weight lead to getting pushed around more. But for a stable trailer that doesn't have too much windage, you can get closer to that weight limit without things getting sketchy.
GameboyRMH said:I think it's mostly the soft springs. What makes for a good offroad vehicle strongly conflicts with what makes for a good tow vehicle, and the Wranglers, like most Jeep vehicles, are much more offroad-oriented than towing-oriented.
I'll go with that. My 3300lbs Tacoma with a 103" wheelbase and 150hp has a 3500lb towing capacity, so you'd think the JL would be much more. But with a 3" lift, removed swaybar, and 33" tires it is way less stable, that extra suspension flex and tire deflection makes it scary to get near that 3500lb factory rating.
I never tried to tow anything with my XJ, but solely on the basis of driving it with the back completely full of E36 M3, I can't imagine towing anything close to 5k.
Funny that the 2.5 auto XJ was rated to tow more than the 4.0 manual. Then again, with 3.07 gears I can understand why.
Manuals are often rated to tow less unless they have a very short first gear. Manufacturers worry about people roasting the clutch trying to get moving on a hill.
rslifkin said:Manuals are often rated to tow less unless they have a very short first gear. Manufacturers worry about people roasting the clutch trying to get moving on a hill.
Manual in this type of vehicle, especially for towing comes under the 'Does not compute' heading for me.
So, serious Q. With a stabilizing hitch and electric brakes, would you consider towing with a 4 door 118" wheelbase twine solid axle vehicle? Would you tow a 4-5K lb (empty) 20ish foot camper?
P.S. Someone asked if the low tow rating was just for the 4 cyl. Funnily enough the V6 NA is the standard engine with the 2.0L turbo 4 banger being the upgrade even though it has less power (270hp Vs 285hp) but has more torque that comes in lower and has a wider band (295lb/gt vs 260lb/ft). Both have the same 3,500lb rating
Tall tires, small brakes?
I fail to see what having a solid front axle has to do with towing.
Since rpm on the road tends to be in the 2/3k range, torque is more important than horsepower
Automatic is the way to go when towing. Especially when parking the trailer..
Solid front axle doesn't matter much for towing. Plenty of 3/4 ton and 1 ton pickups use them. And a solid rear is good for towing. IMO, towing with IRS is sketchy due how much camber most gain under suspension compression.
Adrian_Thompson said:So, serious Q. With a stabilizing hitch and electric brakes, would you consider towing with a 4 door 118" wheelbase twine solid axle vehicle? Would you tow a 4-5K lb (empty) 20ish foot camper?
In general, no. Between the weight and the wind load on that trailer I would want something with a a couple more feet in the wheelbase. Can you, sure, but vacations are supposed to be relaxing. towing that would not be relaxing.
Adrian_Thompson said:So, serious Q. With a stabilizing hitch and electric brakes, would you consider towing with a 4 door 118" wheelbase twine solid axle vehicle? Would you tow a 4-5K lb (empty) 20ish foot camper?
So I tried towing my 20' aluminum enclosed race trailer with a full-size 2010 Range Rover. It was not enough wheelbase for the trailer, at about 113". I wouldn't pull your camper with 118".
The Gladiator wheelbase is about 138" or so, much longer than a 4-door Wrangler and longer than the other "compact" pickups (Ranger, Tacoma, Colorado). I'm hoping it'll be a legit tow vehicle contender for many of us. My F-150 is only what, 144" and pulls my enclosed very well.
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