why is it E36 M3?

VG30_S12 wrote: LikeI said though, money is tight now, its not going to be much more free then, are old bimmers affordable for low income mortals?

Money is tight and you are considering an old BMW?

Break
My
Wallet

I don't know why people think these are expensive. My $1200 1994 325i has been cheaper to own than my $1000 1995 Saturn SC2. It does seem like there are more crappy parts available for the BMW, but the good stuff is affordable. The whole BMWs are LEGOs thing is nice.

If you want the sportiest stock non-M E36 look for a 1993-1995 325i/is or 1996 328i/is with the sport package and LSD. The latter was also available with the early winter package which also included heated seats and heated windshield washers. The sport package in 1995 gained 16x7 wheels. Sedans came standard without the folding rear seats which make those slightly stiffer than the coupes. The sunroof became optional in 1997 on the 328s.

The "i" suffix doesn't exactly mean sedan because the convertibles are also "i"s.

amg_rx7 wrote:

VG30_S12 wrote: LikeI said though, money is tight now, its not going to be much more free then, are old bimmers affordable for low income mortals?

Money is tight and you are considering an old BMW? Break My Wallet

My thoughts were spend some good money on a "quality" car at taxmas. I had an e30 once, but it was a poor example, car was amazing other than and enough so that i want another

Wonder if i should push for an m3 sedan? What's a good ballpark for a fair conditioned one?

VG30_S12 wrote: Wonder if i should push for an m3 sedan? What's a good ballpark for a fair conditioned one?

The US E36 M3 is basically just a bunch of bolt-ons. The best parts are: a standard M50TU or M52 overbored and stroked with better cams, rear subframe reinforcements, and slightly stronger rear end with LSD. The premium they go for is not worth the sum of the values of the unique parts.

VG30_S12 wrote: Looking at buying a cheap e36(non m3the) and was wondering if they were "s-word" as the board macro would have me beleve? Also, not rolling in money for parts and such, are they expensive for up keep? Good daily family hauler/road tripper?

My experience with an E36 is that some parts are a bit more expensive than a Honda or Ford, but not grossly inflated. And if you find one that has been reasonably well maintained, they're fairly dependable.

A 3 series can make a good road trip car for two, but at least in a convertible, the back seat is pretty cramped. A sedan might do better, but it's still about the size of a Honda Civic inside.

MadScientistMatt wrote: A sedan might do better, but it's still about the size of a Honda Civic inside.

So i wonder I'f i should consider a 5speed 525i? Any harder/easier to work on?

My 325i works pretty well as a family hauler. It is much roomier than any of my Saturns (SL/SW2). Though the extra 750lbs is definitely noticeable too. The trunk is pretty big--no problem fitting 4 23" race tires in there.

The E34 5-series is an older chassis design. The E39 is quite a nice chassis if you don't mind the jelly bean exterior. I'd go for late E30 or E34 looks with E46 era powerplants, but the E36 will still handle better.

MadScientistMatt wrote: My experience with an E36 is that some parts are a bit more expensive than a Honda or Ford, but not grossly inflated. And if you find one that has been reasonably well maintained, they're fairly dependable.

I found the parts prices to be cheaper than the equivilant parts for Hyundais

Ranger50 wrote:

oldtin wrote: I would also bypass the automatics.

I disagree. Easy to convert to 5spds or you can get the parts for them to rebuild them, since they are just a GM product.

Wasn't anything particular against them - just a personal preference. Now I'm intrigued since the autos tend to land a lot of BMWs into the scrapyard. Is there a usual mode of failure and how hard to fix?

oldtin wrote: Wasn't anything particular against them - just a personal preference. Now I'm intrigued since the autos tend to land a lot of BMWs into the scrapyard. Is there a usual mode of failure and how hard to fix?

I'm partial to the broken auto ones.

I really haven't seen anything but the fluid "gives out" and burns the unit up. So, the failure mode I would assign is the too literal interpretation of "sealed for life".

To fix them, mostly just a soft parts rebuild, ie-clutches, bands, and seals. Only other thing for them is a quickie shift kit that I would put in them.

ooh - there's a world of $500-$750 BMWs with fried autos out there. I also see quite a few really cheap e39s with dead autos. Is that a different story?

Anything with a ZF = scrap. I'd rather rebuild another 722.x then anything ZF, even manuals.

In reply to VG30_S12:

The M sedan is definitely a good car, just have to find a maintained one. For that, you'll probably be looking at the 6-10k range, buy a manual one, and you'll never have a problem selling it......M sedans are one of the most sought after ones.

Ah - e36 with dead auto = good driver candidate, e39 with dead auto = parts donor

I think the difference between the BMW and the Japanese car, generally speaking, is that the BMW requires maintenance. I'm always shocked when my Subaru WRX requires something other than an oil change. With the BMW, I understand that there will be things that need to be fixed, and because of that, they are available, and not terribly expensive. O2 sensors, window regulators, cooling systems, etc. All easily fixed, but need maintenance on a regular basis. The subaru simply doesn't. Not sure why.

Also, not sure how the calculation would go regarding a 325i/is vs M3. I don't think you're going to come even close to a stock M3 performance/parts for the same cost in a 325/8. And I'd say that the M3 is almost universally better maintained than the "lesser" car. That's why I've stuck with them. And I don't want to do all the work to get a car for more money that is worth less.

not sure about the 325.. but the E36 328 can be brought close to M3 specs in the engine with the 325's intake, a reflash, and a few parts I can't remember (I think you need to adapt the 328 TB to the 325 intake)

in another clear case of not letting the lessor cars upstage their better.. BMW downsized the intake tubes on the 328 so it cannot flow as much air. Makes for nice torque, but keeps the HP down 55 from the M3

Except the intake tubes are smaller on the M3 as well - same intake manifold on both the M3 and the 328i. 328i's are a REALLY good bang for the buck. Great torque, very cheap, and it's really not hard to add an LSD to it. M3 cams in a 328i will basically result in M3 peak power levels, if a little less area under the curve as a result of less displacement.

The higher flowing intake manifold was in fact found on the 325i's and is a good upgrade for 328i's and M3's.

Nathan

I read this and think, yeah, but how many hours and $$ for the cams, the LSD, the suspension, the.... I'd bet that for equivalent quality in a used car, the M3 is as cheap as, and sometimes cheaper than the 328i. My '95 M3 was $5500 with 150k. Interior near perfect (needs headliner), exterior very good. All the go fast parts included and turn key. Oh, and mine has a carbon fiber intake with a shark something or other chip. Nice, functional car with some resale value.

oldtin wrote: Ah - e36 with dead auto = good driver candidate, e39 with dead auto = parts donor

Not necessarily true, early E39s and even some E46s had GM slushboxes too.

All the E36 M3 talk here has gotten me interested in BMWs but I wouldn't know a E36 from a E39... or whatever. I've been seeing older 3 and 5 series on CL from around $5-10K w/ 100K miles +/-.

Could these be good DDs, like 10K/ yr vehicles w/o major repair$? I'm not looking for projects or major overhauls just a turnkey driver w/ routine/ necessary maintenance for their mileage. Should automatics hold up at this mileage? Would I really rather have a E36 M3?

VG30_S12 wrote: MadScientistMatt wrote: A sedan might do better, but it's still about the size of a Honda Civic inside. So i wonder I'f i should consider a 5speed 525i? Any harder/easier to work on?

I have an E34 525i sedan that I've done quite a bit of work to, but thats because I bought it with a known bad engine. Its not bad at all to work on. Its not fast, but a comfortable competent solid feeling highway cruiser. I got it so cheap that even with a replacement engine from the junkyard, and bunch of miscellaneous wear items replaced, I'm still into it for less than $2000.

And the back seats have just barely enough room for adults, so I imagine a 3 series has useless back seats.

HappyAndy wrote: And the back seats have just barely enough room for adults, so I imagine a 3 series has useless back seats.

I once had three people in my Ti, Myself, my boss, and a fellow co-worker. The co-worker was in the back. He's 4'9" (I am not kidding) and still had my boss move the seat up. First time he had EVER had to ask somebody to do that.

before anybody gets snippity about it being a Ti.. all the length taken out of the hatchback was taken out from BEHIND the rear wheels.. so while it is close to 9 inches shorter in length.. the interior is still the same size

bludroptop wrote:

VG30_S12 wrote: Wonder how hard a 325is 5speed sedan will be to find

Doesn't exist. The 'i' suffix means sedan and 'is' suffix means coupe in e36 model naming. What you are looking for is a 325i/4/5 (four door 5-speed) and they are not uncommon.

This all changes with the 318 though. I don't know why, and I don't know if it was supposed to be that way, but I have seen multiple sedans with "is" on them and a few coupes with "i" on them. Go figure.

And yeah, if you have 3 kids, the 3 series would work... but you would probably be better off with a 5 series.

The rear seat in an E36 coupe is usable for adults, but not ideal if they are large, or tall adults.

If your rear seat passengers are under 6" and 200lbs they will be fine for around town trips. Even longer trips they should be ok as long as the front seat passengers aren't tall folks who need the seats set back.

I recently had 4 adults (none over 6" or 200 lbs) in the car for an hour drive and everyone was comfortable.

If you have larger folks in the car, obviously the comfort level goes down.