Jaynen wrote: You never want to tow in overdrive even if it has it though right?
Depends on the trans. Some have known issues with towing in OD, some don't.
If the trans doesn't have any known issues with it, feel free to tow in OD if you're not pulling something big and heavy. But if the trans temps start to climb or it's not able to steadily keep itself in OD with the TC locked, lock out OD and let it stay down a gear.
rslifkin wrote:Jaynen wrote: You never want to tow in overdrive even if it has it though right?Depends on the trans. Some have known issues with towing in OD, some don't. If the trans doesn't have any known issues with it, feel free to tow in OD if you're not pulling something big and heavy. But if the trans temps start to climb or it's not able to steadily keep itself in OD with the TC locked, lock out OD and let it stay down a gear.
My problem with trans temp gauges is that once its hot, its too late. By the time the gauge sees high temps, you've already probably burned a lot of clutch material off. Still a useful tool, but don't use it as an indicator of upcoming damage. Use it to know when you've already screwed yourself.
In reply to curtis73:
That's why you watch the gauge frequently and have to have a low enough "ok, time to cool things down" temp in mind. And this is why a warning light is no substitute for a gauge (as it doesn't give you any kind of trend monitoring).
If the gauge is steadily climbing (but not at a point of concern yet), it needs attention.
If you're sitting around 200* pan temp, time to get things cooling down before it gets hotter and starts to fry stuff.
I towed 3900 lbs. allover the NE with my KJ in OD. Never a problem.
If it needs to be out of OD it will do so. Automatically.
iceracer wrote: If it needs to be out of OD it will do so. Automatically.
This is a very dangerous assumption if you don't know your transmission's specific behavior.
Some transmissions (like the Dodge 46 / 47 / 48 RE) will downshift from 4th to 3rd, but will then be in 3rd with the torque converter unlocked. That'll make a lot of heat very quickly. If you lock out OD, it enables TC lockup in 3rd gear, which solves the issue. Of course, intelligent manual selection of OD on / off during the drive is an option, but it's not just a case of "leave OD on and ignore it".
Plus, in some cases in hills of varying steepness, etc. it'll shift in / out of OD a lot. At that point, it's nicer to the trans to just knock it down a gear and stay there.
And being in OD when towing doesn't necessarily save much fuel. Pulling anything with decent wind drag behind my ZJ, it's constantly in fuel enrichment barely maintaining speed in OD, while it's happily running in closed loop in 3rd burning about the same amount of fuel (and being nicer to the engine as well as having more power available without a downshift). Only downside is more noise.
I pretty much just hit the "tow/haul" button on the shifter and let the computer worry about it. Never had an issue with the Allison switching back and forth between gears, and never seen the tranny temp gauge go over 200.
I doubt either of those trucks I linked has a tow haul button but maybe?
curtis73 wrote: I'll go a different way with the 4x4. Don't get it just because you leave pavement. I have it because I grew up on a farm and there are days when I HAVE to get to work even if there is a foot of snow. I also got it because I am a member at a hunting/fishing camp that sometimes needs it to get in/out based on rainfall/snowfall. I've owned it for two years now and it has been in 4x4 exactly twice; once when I bought the truck to test it, and once to move about 6 feet out of a parking space in the snow, and that second time it had trouble engaging because the activators weren't working correctly. I have owned multiple 4x4s in my life and this has been true for my entire driving history. Unless you NEED it, don't get it, and it doesn't sound like you need it. 4x4s also typically have a wider turning radius (front CV joints can't articulate quite as far) Don't tow in overdrive. As long as you're under 5000-6000 lbs of trailer weight its not much of an issue, but watch your shifts. They tune shifts to be weak and soft because most owners would complain about rough shifts. Nearly all of your clutch wear happens during shifting. If you're shifting in and out of OD a lot, pull it down to third and leave it there while towing. I like the GMs running gear. The 6.0L has more than enough oomph, but your MPGs will be disproportionately lower over the 5.3L. A small boost in oomph, but a big hit at the pump. But I doubt you'll find any 3/4s with the 5.3L. The 4L80E is a brute and should last well. Not quite as well as the 8.1L/Allison, but don't stress about it. My big problem with the two GMs I have (04 Dmax 3/4 and 08 Dmax 1-ton) is the quality of materials. The interiors are buzzy, rattly, and made with low quality fabrics and leathers. They don't last well, but at least they're comfy. The Ford's running gear is on par, but I don't like my 5.4L. Early or late, they have spark plug issues. Mine likes to blow them out because there are only about three threads in the head. Later ones like to NOT let plugs go because they are a long-reach plug that gets seized in the head. Coils are troublesome. Exhaust manifolds warp and leak. But the 10.25" rear and 4R100 or 5R110 are both nice transmissions. Interior fit and finish rival Mercedes, but ergonomics suck. I finally wore a little spot in the edge of the cloth seat after 246k in my last F250 compared to 68k in my Chevy when the leather blew out the entire seam. I'm not a fan of Dodges. They never really got transmissions right, and they are expensive to rebuild. The engines are fine, and they use a very similar AAM-type rear axle that is up to the task, but a 47 or 48RE is one expensive trans to build. If you're looking for the most annoying possible driving experience, drive 100 miles in a Dodge. After leaning forward 6 times to unratchet the seat belt while reaching half way across the truck to change the A/C or radio while wondering why the speakers can't overcome the buzzes and rattles in the dashboard, you'll see what I mean. So, good choice with the GMs, but don't expect a really high-quality interior. The dash buttons like to wear off their labels, the seating materials are subpar, and my 08 Dmax started buzzing in the dashboard three days after I drove it off the lot. I personally went Ford this time, (02 F150-7700... right truck/right price) but I'm kicking myself for getting the 5.4L.
I had an 04 F150 with the 5.4 and it was fine but I only did light towing and hauled dirt bikes in it. I've even seen F-250s for sale with the 5.4 which unless a different rear end makes a huge difference makes me concerned vs the 6.0 in the Chevy's
It seems like as soon as you get out of the 2000's its all 7.3 powerstroke fords and 454 chevys amongst the 3/4 ton trucks. I believe I saw some of the 454's did come with the 4L80E so that might be a bonus in terms of longevity?
Truck likely won't see much non work/tow use as we have a minivan and my daily
Patrick wrote: 2 kids in car seats laugh at the extended cab. My FIL has an 05 2500 extended cab. My daughter's seat in back makes whichever seat she is behind have to be all the way forward leaving no room for a front passenger.
Baby seats mean you have to get the Ford or the Toyota. They are the 2 with the biggest back seats. You'll definitely like the Ford better than the Gm or Dodge. I have a Ford and I've had to drive the GM and a Dodge for an extended period recently and the room, fit & finish is hands down worse than the Ford.
I have not driven the Toyota, but it's the only other one with a decent and a comfortable back seat.
You will love the flat floor on the Ford. It makes the back seat area so much more useful. Because of the extra room and the flat floor when we go into stores we can normally fit all the stuff from the bed into the back seat and lock it up.
We've had bed covers and they are so inconvenient we don't have them on this truck
Do all the ford crewcabs have the flip up rear seat/flat floor?
I have a 02 chevy 2500hd ext cab with the 6.5 ft bed. 4x4, 6.0 and 4l80 trans. The cab is big enough for 4 people. Sure the crew cab is bigger, but extended is big enough. I live in ohio and and i probably engage 4x4 twice a year, i could live without it. I probably average 12 mpg. It tows great with a typical two axle trailer with a couple tons of weight. I would prefer an 8 ft bed, but im getting by without it. They are a good truck and i think you have made the right choice going down that path.
I'm pretty sure I could get by with an extended cab in general except I have one kid 3 in a harness booster and one 7 in a booster. The issue is the harness booster because she tends to always kick the seats.
In my E350 (the car not the van) we have to move the seat a fair bit forward so she doesn't vs in our Odyssey its not really an issue
Of course you can try to tell the 3yr old to stop putting feet on the seats but that does not seem to last long :P
Jaynen wrote: Do all the ford crewcabs have the flip up rear seat/flat floor?
I think all of the SuperDuty body and up do. My 1996 Supercab 250 has a rear bench where the base flips forward and the back folds down to give you a flat metal-decked storage space but it's much higher up - about even with the front seat bases. It give more storage width front to back but not as much height. The biggest advantage of the newer trucks is the mini doors on the extend cab. Getting anything into or out of my extended cab is PITA.
As for bed length, go 8' if you plan to tow an enclosed fifth wheel, but the 6' will be fine for anything else and less ungainly to park. Mine has the 8' and although it is awesome for ridiculous amount of stuff I can put there, a 6' would do everything just as well. Also the six would help a little with traction by keeping a little more weight on the back. My long bed 2wd will peg leg at the least provocation. I tow a boat regularly and it always makes me nervous but I haven't had an issue there...yet. If/when I replace this truck it will be with a 6' bed crew cab, probably an Ecoboost F150 with either 4wd or a locking rear. If I keep this one, it will get a rear locker.
The Powerstroke 7.3s do get better mileage than the gassers by a good margin. Even in my 1st gen I average 16+ towing a boat and a full bed of vacation stuff, the wife and our dog. Unloaded and cruising at 65 I have seen over 20.
EDIT: oh yeah, avoid lowered trucks link the stroke you linked if you have any plans of being off pavement.
If you're mostly using the truck as a truck (and rarely driving it around empty), the traction issue with an 8ft bed is much less of a problem, as the stuff in the bed or the tongue / pin weight of the trailer is adding weight to the drive wheels. A crew cab will also be a little better than an extended cab in that sense.
There is something about the late 90's Fords which appeals to me from a classic looking truck standpoint. But I will pretty much buy whatever is the best deal I can find. If a pre-2000's 7.3 powerstroke can be reliable to hopefully well over 250k miles I will put them on my list to keep an eye out for along with the 2000-2006ish GM/Ford 3/4ton gassers. However I think that maybe the Fords with the 5.4 will drop off my list for 3/4 ton trucks while I would be fine with any of the GM offerings
Truck will have to have 4 doors, would prefer crew still to extended cab just dont like having to open the front to open the back etc
I probably would go 2wd given the choice but when shopping used I don't see near as many 2wd trucks
rslifkin wrote: In reply to curtis73: That's why you watch the gauge frequently and have to have a low enough "ok, time to cool things down" temp in mind. And this is why a warning light is no substitute for a gauge (as it doesn't give you any kind of trend monitoring). If the gauge is steadily climbing (but not at a point of concern yet), it needs attention. If you're sitting around 200* pan temp, time to get things cooling down before it gets hotter and starts to fry stuff.
I understand what you're saying, but that only works one way. I'll explain.
If you have general overheating issues; coolant temp high causing high trans temps, pump parasitic heat, or a clogged cooler, your scenario works. In that case, the fluid temps are reaching a temperature which could damage the clutches. When you're towing, the opposite happens. The clutches are under much more stress during shifting and they can get super-heated and damaged long before they increase the general fluid temps seen by the gauge.
So yes, if the fluid temps rise due to some reason other than clutch friction, the gauge will see it and you can prevent clutch damage. When towing, overheated fluid means its likely too late because its the superheated clutches causing the temperature rise.
I wish I had a nickel for every transmission I rebuilt and the owner said "I don't understand, the temp gauge never got any higher than 220." But when I pull it apart, the clutches show damage from 550 degrees or more.
Jaynen wrote: There is something about the late 90's Fords which appeals to me from a classic looking truck standpoint. But I will pretty much buy whatever is the best deal I can find. If a pre-2000's 7.3 powerstroke can be reliable to hopefully well over 250k miles I will put them on my list to keep an eye out for along with the 2000-2006ish GM/Ford 3/4ton gassers.
7.3Ls are just about as reliable as you can find. Cam position sensors go at 200k or so, and glow plug relays last about 80k. Otherwise, enjoy it for 400k or more. Then you'll likely have to replace injectors. Suffice it to say, a 7.3L (like many diesels) will blow any gasser out of the water on reliability. Big time. By a couple hundred thousand miles. Your truck will be a disintegrated pile of rust before the 7.3L gives up on you. Our shop truck was a 95 F-super 7.3L with a 12' box on it. We finally sold it for $750 with almost 500k because it snapped a tie rod and went off the road ending up on its side. It smoked a little when you first started it, but it always started and ran. The guy who bought it said he was going to yank the engine and use it in a 74 F150 project.
The same basic longblock goes in International medium duty trucks up to 18,000 GVW (DT444) and its service interval is 600k. By that, I mean, its scheduled for a checkup to see if it needs crank bearings and/or rings. At 600k. Then its back into service for up to 1 million or death.
If the clutches are cooking themselves with fluid temps around 200*, then that trans is shifting way too soft and can't handle towing anything heavy regardless of temp. Crank up the line pressure or throw in a shift kit and that'll fix it.
Plus, highway towing isn't generally when you'll cook a trans anyway, as it shouldn't be doing much shifting, so the clutch packs shouldn't be building up a lot of heat.
Mind you, I did fry a converter lockup clutch in my 46RE the one time I let it into 3rd (and lockup) while beating the piss out of it on a track... Rest of the trans was (and still is) fine though, possibly due to being shift-kitted. Fluid temps were around 200* at the time. Lockup engagement was always pretty soft with the stock converter, so I knew that thing would give up eventually. A few turns on the line pressure screw and a better clutch in the new converter should resolve that problem.
So we are out in Nashville for the 4th of July weekend and it turns out my wifes uncle has a really clean rust free 1987 F-350 crew cab. Truck looks well cared for in general interior in great shape, very straight has been repainted. Has a Kenwood stereo, wilwood brakes, a brake controller, looks to have en extended fuel tank in the bed also.
Truck has the 460 in it and about 250k miles. He got himself a newer dodge with the cummins so is thinking about selling it.
Besides the fact that I might be able to get a family deal its a pretty cool classic truck, what I don't know is what I would need to be worried about with an older truck. Towing mpg wise I don't think the 460 will be much worse than the 6.0 or 8.1 gm motors (around 10mpg)
Is it worth maybe rescuing this truck and keeping it going? Looks like its the C6 transmission and the ford 10.25 rear axle with 3.55 gears
In reply to Jaynen:
Hell yes!
The prices in these trucks (OBS) are rising so you won't lose money if you had to sell.
In reply to ebonyandivory:
What does obs mean?
The asking prices on 7.3 trucks and SUV's are out of this world! Nearly 300k miles and still asking for over $10k! And under 200k miles people are trying to get $20k or more.
Jaynen wrote: In reply to ebonyandivory: What does obs mean?
Old Body Style. Not a very sophisticated bit of nomenclature!
The one you posted came between what are affectionately called "Bullnose" and the '92-'97 nose
In reply to rslifkin: Point being, when the transmission no longer sees a need it will shift back into OD.
Also, in my KJ there was roughly 700 rpm difference at 70 mph.
Other makes will vary.
Trucks got a lot more civilized during the 90s and 2000s. Being a '93, that one is likely to be less comfortable on long tows than the GMT800s referenced earlier. That may or may not be a significant factor to you. :)
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