You Need This: A tube-frame Nissan Sentra race car

In reply to ojannen :

The pull: They’re coooool.

Okay, really, here’s some history as I recall it. This is off the top of my head, so feel free to correct. 

Back in the day–so we’re talking ’60s and ’70s–the SCCA offered Production classes and Sedan classes for production-based cars. Two-seat sports cars landed in Production, and sedans ran in, yep, the Sedan classes. Each category featured a few classes: A Production (big-block Cobras and Corvettes), B Production (small-block V8s, Shelby GT350 since it didn’t have a back seat), C Sedan, D, Sedan, etc. (Sidebar: Showroom Stock appeared in the very early ’70s, but let’s ignore that for now.)

Sticking with the just Sedan classes, A Sedan featured your pony cars: Mustang, Camaro, etc. Basically Trans-Am-type cars.

B Sedan welcomed your Datsun 510s, Alfa GTVs, BMW 2002, etc. More or less your 2.5L T/A cars.

And C and D Sedan featured your really small-bore cars: Minis, some Alfas, various Datsuns, little Fiats, etc. 

The SCCA eventually replaced the Sedan category with the GT category and, at that point, allowed people to run tube-frame cars. Part of the reason, as I recall, was easier crash repair plus the ability to update the body (to keep manufacturers happy).

Nissan, for example, would rather see someone run a current Sentra than an old B210. That Sentra might still run an old-school engine, but at least it looked current. At a time, Nissan and a few others were really involved in SCCA Club Racing. This could also allow a driver to (sort of easily) turn a tube-frame Toyota into a tube-frame Mazda–keep the chassis but change the engine and fiberglass bodywork. 

So, that’s how we got to a point in time where tube-frame Sentras were a thing. 

Hope you enjoyed my TED Talk. :)

And just to bring things up to modern times, a few years ago the SCCA combined GT4 and GT5 to create GT Lite.

We still have GT1, GT2 and GT3. 

In reply to David S. Wallens :

Thanks for the info.

In reply to j_tso :

There was and still is a maximum width. For my 1200 it was something like 6-7 inches wider.

In reply to ojannen :

No problem. The club racing scene looked a little different back in the early ’90s: no NASA, no Gridlife, TT wasn’t really a thing. 

Showroom Stock existed, but that meant stock seats, stock brakes, not a ton of grip. Plus your car might become obsolete the next year. 

If you wanted to race a fast, production-based car with more than two seats, SCCA GT might well be your best option. That also meant slicks, rod ends and real car car stuff. 

Looking back, yeah, I can see how a full-race, tube-frame Sentra might seem a little odd....

Yeh, everything David said. And I'll add that part of the philosophy of the tube-frame GT era was the ability to leverage many off-the-shelf circle track parts, which were far more numerous and therefore more cost-effective than bespoke technology. Of course, cars were not limited to off-the-shelf parts and converted mini-stock chassis, and racers are racers, which is how we ended up with highly developed, purpose built smallbore tube frame GT cars with hundreds of thousands of dollars spent in development and construction to win a $30 plastic trophy with no one watching.

A few high-profile semi-pro series—mostly geographically regional in nature—popped up around smallbore GT cars over the years, but none really caught on.

In reply to David S. Wallens :

Before I bought my Foxbody I seriously considered the car.

One of those regional tube-frame series: NASPORT out on the West Coast. (JG said I should take credit for remembering that one.)

JG just found some rules from 2016.

Tom1200 said:

In reply to David S. Wallens :

Before I bought my Foxbody I seriously considered the car.

The Sentra? 

Oh yeah, we haven’t discussed Improved Touring, another SCCA option for sedans.

One big difference: IT was Regional, GT meant you could also race in Nationals. 

Something I noticed in the SCCA rule book: Technically you could run four-door Sentra bodywork in the GT Lite class:

And you can run any of these Nissan engines in your GT Lite Nissan:

In reply to David S. Wallens :

One nuance you missed was the GT classes were intended to replace the Sedan and Production classes. There was a great hue and cry and the great re-order was ended.

On the topic of the re-order the greatest advantage of the SCCA being a club was displayed  - everyone  is heard and can have their wishes acted upon. In 1979 we saw A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H Production, and A,B,C,D Sedan. Consolidation began and ended at E,F,G,H Production and GT 1,2,3,4,5. Fast forward to today and G production has been consolidated into F and  H. GT 4 and 5 have been consolidated into GT Lite and GTL is on life support due to low entries and will become a Regional only class without more numbers.

Good points and, yes, at the end of the day, the SCCA is a club. To add to my above post, the faster Production cars (A-D) more or less became GT1-3, hence why you have two-seaters like Z-cars and RX-7s in the GT classes. (We need a flow chart.)

And something else that I don’t think helps the health of those small-bore classes: The OEs no longer make 1200cc engines that put out 60-something horsepower. Even the cars that make up B Spec are no longer found at the dealerships. 

Crazy through: Race that Sentra with HSR? 

Looks to be an excellent track day ride.......

David S. Wallens said:

Tom1200 said:

In reply to David S. Wallens :

Before I bought my Foxbody I seriously considered the car.

The Sentra? 

Yes, the Sentra (wasn't very clear was I). After I sold the F500 I joined the GT Facebook page

I decided against it because I'd then have two dedicated races cars............which is part of why I sold the F500.

David S. Wallens said:

race that Sentra with HSR? 

If I had bought it I would have run the car at vintage races and track days.

I have to admit that I love classic GT5/GTL Minis like this one.  The giant arches with tube fronts to fit 13" wheels just look great.  I don't quite get the rear wheel drive conversions.  I know why it was originally allowed but I don't understand why the loophole wasn't closed.

Once GTL dies, where can you run these things in competition with similar speed cars?

In reply to ojannen :

F or H Prod with adjustments? Does that finally close the loop on the great GT merger of sorts?

David S. Wallens said:

Oh yeah, we haven’t discussed Improved Touring, another SCCA option for sedans.

One big difference: IT was Regional, GT meant you could also race in Nationals. 

Did someone say Improved Touring?

And yes, that's a 200SX behind me.  Probably more rare than a Consulier at this time.

ojannen said:

Once GTL dies, where can you run these things in competition with similar speed cars?

Vintage race groups will accept them. The group I race with would likely throw you in with the B-Sedan cars.

In reply to racerfink :

Wow, way rare on the 200SX. And 30 years ago, Improved Touring was such a big part of our mix–we built an ITB 2002, were involved in the rebirth of the ARRC, etc. Today, well, not nearly as much.

In reply to David S. Wallens :

The joy of vintage racing is your car will never go out of flavor.  In my run group we have everything from 1955 to 1994. 

In reply to Tom1200 :

That is true. I can see something like this Sentra gridded alongside some B Sedan cars. 

At one time I considered getting a used NASCAR sort of thing. Not necessarily NASCAR itself, but that same family of tube frame "cars." Stick an LS in it and it could theoretically get you going very fast at track day events for not much (other than consumables). I realize this isn't really in the same category as the GT cars, but is similar in that you can get a lot buying a used race car, especially one from the "roundy-round" boys, though it could take a lot of work to make it turn right, hah.