It doesn't matter if a Civic would dust it, it'll make wonderful noises and make your eyes water with fumes :) And it has a screaming chicken.
It doesn't matter if a Civic would dust it, it'll make wonderful noises and make your eyes water with fumes :) And it has a screaming chicken.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
Yup to all of that.
Has everyone forgotten Horsepower = Torque x RPM / 5,252
That engine made 315 lb-ft. That's detuned for emissions, in 1968 the 400 was making 428 lb-ft.
These engines make gobs of torque but it's all over by 4500rpm.
Spin that engine faster, it will make more hp. Pretty simple.
Plus, a lot of the manufacturers at that time were lying to the insurance companies.
I think there's a bit more to it than just the "peak" hp number. Watch Jay Leno drive a W-72 T/A with "only" 220 hp. He says "back in the day this was a fast car", then puts his foot down, grins and says "it's still a fast car." Then goes on to say it feels like it has at least 100 more than advertised. I doubt it's built much either as evidenced by the original appearing cat that can be seen when it's on the lift.
Single numbers often don't convey all the information we think they do.
racerfink said:There are some 'Exotic' cars from that era that would get trounced by a modern 'sporty' car. Americas big three weren't the only ones hampered by the era of gas lines.
Now, having said all that... it's funny listening to all the complaints about how the 6th Gen Camaro is such a pig, when it's a hundred pounds less than a 77 T/A with the 400.
Do you have the weights handy? If so, that is astonishing.
Throw in a shift kit, punch it around a corner is a plume of tire smoke with a quick drift over your dick neighbor's lawn. Just perfect in my book.
David S. Wallens said:In reply to stuart in mn :
True, this with a four-speed would totally be the one. Still, with the auto you got that sweet shifter with the thumb button. Pretty sure my dad’s ’78 Camaro had the same one.
If it is a W72 car, there's at least a good chance it came with the Rally (or is it Ralleye?) Shifter, which is basically a factory ratchet shifter! I have one on the shelf for mine, in case I ever want to swap out my Hurst Dual Gate shifter for more of a factory look.
I was just reading yesterday about one of the entrants in Drag Week 2024 who has a Pontiac that makes 1400hp at the wheels. Granted, it's a 496ci aftermarket block with aftermarket heads, twin turbos and running on methanol, but still. https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2024/12/twin-turbo-496-cid-pontiac-engine/
ShawnG said:Has everyone forgotten Horsepower = Torque x RPM / 5,252
That engine made 315 lb-ft. That's detuned for emissions, in 1968 the 400 was making 428 lb-ft.
These engines make gobs of torque but it's all over by 4500rpm.
Spin that engine faster, it will make more hp. Pretty simple.
Plus, a lot of the manufacturers at that time were lying to the insurance companies.
Except you really don't want to turn a ton of RPM with Pontiac engines, with their big diameter rod and main bearings. Plus, Pontiac engines were blessed/cursed with tall and skinny intake ports that had great velocity down low, for lots of torque, but didn't have enough volume at higher RPM.
Personally, I’d keep it stock and enjoy it as a period piece, down to the white-letter tires. #flamesuiton
racerfink said:There are some 'Exotic' cars from that era that would get trounced by a modern 'sporty' car. Americas big three weren't the only ones hampered by the era of gas lines.
Now, having said all that... it's funny listening to all the complaints about how the 6th Gen Camaro is such a pig, when it's a hundred pounds less than a 77 T/A with the 400.
I remember a beloved GRM issue that involved a minivan and a few exotics from bygone eras . . .
In reply to NickD :
Sorry, didn't mean to spin the Poncho engine faster. I meant that of course a modern engine that can sing to 7000 rpm will post high horsepower figures. That's how math works.
David S. Wallens said:Personally, I’d keep it stock and enjoy it as a period piece, down to the white-letter tires. #flamesuiton
Period mods would also be acceptable. Engines of that era didn't take much to wake them up a little, unlike the highly optimized mills of today.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
I'm trying to think of a list of period correct mods. I want to say things like a Kameii air dam, and big driving lights. But I as a VW guy back in the day, and I don't think they'd be right foir this car :)
David S. Wallens said:Personally, I’d keep it stock and enjoy it as a period piece, down to the white-letter tires. #flamesuiton
I'd basically keep it stock-appearing, but at least cam the 400, do some head work, and install the better flowing Ram Air exhaust manifolds. I'd probably upgrade to poly bushings and body mounts, too. Keep the rest as-is. It was cool as hell back in the day, and still cool as hell now.
In reply to Tony Sestito :
Okay, I can see that list. But stock brakes, stock wheels, stock exhaust tips, stock ride height. Gotta keep the white-letter tires, too.
Also, I might still have some door striker bushings in the garage from my Catalina. Made a huge difference. It cost like a buck or so more to buy a box of bushings vs. the four that I needed. So now I have a box of GM door striker bushings somewhere in the garage. So I’d replace those.
In reply to David S. Wallens :
You don't hear much about the T-37s any more - basically a stripper model meant for the drag and street racers. Took a look - only 54 of them got the 455 HO.
I guess drag racing was so popular in the US that all other aspects of performance were neglected, including handling and braking. I raced a 1958 British sports car with a DOHC engine and 4 wheel disc brakes. We used to get guys with early Mustangs, several of them with drum brakes, and if they didn't fall off the road track on a corner, they would roar away on the straights and then I'd shoot past them under braking.
In reply to wspohn :
Yeah, seeing this one stopped me. You see lots of GTOs, but a 455-powered T-37?
It sold for $33k. Here’s the link: 1971 Pontiac Lemans.
Also, this is why I tell people to attend these sales: Whether buying or not, it’s a way to see a ton of cool cars for like $30. (Actually, I see you save 25% if buying your Mecum pass early.)
And my mediocre photo of the T-37 in the tent.
Revisionism has no place in the classic car enthusiast world. Of course they were big heavy slow pigs. If that's the criteria then buy yourself a new minivan and you will spank anything built prior to 1995.
Someone bought one when I was in high school and immediately dropped in a very healthy 455. I still remember the crackle of that thing coming into the parking lot. I have wanted one ever since and I don't care how fast or slow it will corner because it will look good the whole time.
The T-37's were basically stripped Pontiac Tempests that you could basically order with whatever options you wanted, and that's cool.
They also made a GT-37:
These had some of the more expensive GTO's options, and like the ad says, whatever performance V8 you wanted out of the Pontiac lineup, along with some cool stripes and the Rally II wheels. It was Pontiac's answer to the Plymouth Roadrunner. They even had factory hood pins. Gnarly!
See, they had me at hood pins.
Keith Tanner said:David S. Wallens said:Personally, I’d keep it stock and enjoy it as a period piece, down to the white-letter tires. #flamesuiton
Period mods would also be acceptable. Engines of that era didn't take much to wake them up a little, unlike the highly optimized mills of today.
Yeah, heads cam and intake plus exhaust and tuning you're pretty much looking at 1hp per cubic inch.
My favorite is when people complain about something from '73-'86 that came with a SBC being slow. It's like "How would someone even go about getting more horsepower from a carbureted 350? Where would you get parts? Sounds expensive also. And just think if it came with a 305 how would you get something bigger in there?"
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