You're favorite do-it-all/compromise tire?

Vracer111 wrote: Why do you want to run 18" wheel/tire on an FRS/BRZ that sees track/autocross? Why not stick with 17"s for lower cost, less unsprung weight, and better availability of tires? One thing I've really noticed with the FRS is with removing some unsprung weight off the car the quicker and more agile it becomes along with a better ride quality. Take even 2lbm from each corner and it's noticeable, and likewise add 2lbm per corner and it's noticeable. That's why this is my tire/wheel choice: 205/45-17 on 17x7.5 with +40mm offset - makes the stock setup seem sluggish and clunky in comparison. She is extremely light yet stable on her feet (4+lbm less a corner, a lower CG with more grip than the Primacy HP's in every situation, and a slightly wider track all adds up...) In any case, a highly regarded Max Performance category tire for best all around performance would be the ticket. A lot of FRS/BRZ guys seem happy with the Michelin PSS. I'm more than happy with the Kumho Sport LE's - actually like them much better than the Kumho XS they replaced because the Sport LE's perfectly suit the balance of the car in the chosen size and have phenomenal wet weather handling capability. I'm more of someone who buys a low cost performance tire with short life but still has great performance throughout it's life than a buy expensive Michelin tires guy.

Because 18s look better.

If I was that worried about weight/size, I'd buy a set of Weds or similar in 17x9 slap R-comps on them and use the stock setup for street driving. But that's boring.

A few pounds isn't going to make that much of a difference, do we all not remember the GRM article comparing wheel weights?

MattGent wrote: I got ~20k mostly highway miles, and 5-6 track days out of Direzza Z1 on my Miata. In South FL, where it rains a lot, and they were good in the rain until the tread was nearly gone. Same deal as you - I used XP8 pads and didn't change anything, just check tire pressure and lug nut torque and head onto the track. I run the car with my dad, so it sees lots of track time per event. Need to replace, but now the Miata is an extra car so maybe 5k miles to 10 track days. I'd be happy with the same performance again. Leaning Z2 but not yet decided.

Finally! Someone who gets it.

I want a small tool bag, extra set of pads, jack and jack stand and torque wrench. Some extra fluids. Done.

I've been down the dedicated track car path before, and to me, it's a bigger PITA than it's worth.

I'm doing the same thing, I run Z1SS, and with them I've always been on the podium at autocross, right behind a light-as-a-fart car that is sometimes on R-comps.

This is my favorite do-it-all tire, but I doubt that it will work for your requirements.

Another vote for Dunlop's. I have two summer, about 10 auto-x and 2 track days on my old DZ1's. They still have thread left for the beginning of the season, and they were still grippy enough to let me finish in the top three at my local auto-x.

As far as I can see, they are the only real street tire (good wear, good in the rain, and the cold) that's also competetive. So happy with them, I'll be ordering some Z2's soon.

Kumho SPT. Value-priced. Great in wet. Autocross worthy. Won't wear out after a couple trips around the block.

In reply to pinchvalve:

wait until to try to KO2

FSP_ZX2 wrote: Kumho SPT. Value-priced. Great in wet. Autocross worthy. Won't wear out after a couple trips around the block.

I'd recommend these for a street tire with light performance use, but not for anyone who's doing more than an occasional event just for fun. You're sacrificing a lot of grip for longevity, wet performance and street manners if you're on SPTs.

gasp Bigger wheels for looks!? You sir, are not hardcore!

Its funny to see the guy preaching 17s and lightweight for performance running a tiny 205 and 7.5" wheel.

ProDarwin wrote: **gasp** Bigger wheels for *looks*!? You sir, are *not* hardcore! Its funny to see the guy preaching 17s and lightweight for performance running a tiny 205 and 7.5" wheel.

And the tire selection as well. Just going with 17x8 RPF1s and a 215/45/17 performance tire would have netted much better performance gains and likely dropped 7-8lbs per corner.

I'm running SPTs on my mustang. Almost 20k miles and they aren't done yet but will be by the summer. Dry grip is good, hydroplane resistance / rain behavior is okay. I haven't autocrossed on them but they are about as sticky as the Fuzion ZRi's I used to run, and those did fine for a street tire on AX - usually managed to place in class at the local events over cars withe slightly stickier tires. On a mildly modified, street driven car I was giving up the 10/10ths anyway, so why sweat it. I want to drive in, air up and have some fun, and then drive home.

I haven't run open track,so can't speak to chunking.

They are squeally when starting to lose traction which I find annoying but they break loose evenly and consistently.

OTOH, I bought new rims and will going to wider tires on the next set, and I don't think I'll get the SPTs this time. Probably try out the BFG Comp2s. Always heard good things and they're reasonably priced in 275/40r18

z31maniac wrote: Typical GRM thread, half the people suggest exactly the opposite of what I want to do. If I was going to have to sets of wheels and tires and switch back and forth just for track work, I'd just R-comps on them. That's point, I don't want to lug that stuff around, or change brake pads, etc. There are no trophy girls at HPDE or Auto-X.

We can't help you then. Nothing to see here, move along.

GameboyRMH wrote:

FSP_ZX2 wrote: Kumho SPT. Value-priced. Great in wet. Autocross worthy. Won't wear out after a couple trips around the block.

I'd recommend these for a street tire with light performance use, but not for anyone who's doing more than an occasional event just for fun. You're sacrificing a lot of grip for longevity, wet performance and street manners if you're on SPTs.

I ran a 2007 Mazda6 as a daily driver from 2007-2010. I had SPTs on it (225/45-17) and used it in a pinch for an autocrossser when the ZX2 was down. The car was very competitive in HS/'FWD Street Tire' (our local index class at the time). I even managed to beat a national level Mini Cooper (who was on XS's) with that setup. Not sure how they would do on a track-day, but for a "jack-of-all-trades" summer tire, I was pretty impressed.

Yep they're my favorite for that use, but for a mostly-track tire, it's giving up too much.

I used to track them and they'd get greasy after maybe 10 laps on a small track, if you kept going they'd become uselessly melty.

z31maniac wrote: I want a small tool bag, extra set of pads, jack and jack stand and torque wrench. Some extra fluids. Done. I've been down the dedicated track car path before, and to me, it's a bigger PITA than it's worth.

That's exactly what I do. Tupperware box on a cargo carrier, drop that apply #s and I'm ready to run.

Discussed with a friend who runs Chump/LeMons, he's happy with Rivals. Don't think they are as good in the rain as the Z1SS were, but less important to me since I'm not commuting in the car anymore. They run 9hr events on a set in a 944. 225/45-15 currently out of stock though, may be my choice when I can get them.

MattGent wrote: They run 9hr events on a set in a 944. 225/45-15 currently out of stock though, may be my choice when I can get them.

Isn't this size discontinued for the Z2?

I have Khumo Ventus V12 on a car that only has one set of wheels. I really like them. They're a great street tire (though no snow where I live) great in heavy rain and last a long time. I autocross the car 4-5 times a year. They don't have the ultimate grip that RS3's or the like have, but they are quite close and very predictable. I haven't had any problems with AX wear on a 3300lb car with them. The only thing I haven't done on them is track them. I do have a friend that has (they are his go to 'I've run out of race car money' tire) and he says they're quite good as long as you have the ability to feel them getting soft and back off a bit. And best of all, they're quite cheap.

GameboyRMH wrote:

MattGent wrote: They run 9hr events on a set in a 944. 225/45-15 currently out of stock though, may be my choice when I can get them.

Isn't this size discontinued for the Z2?

BFG Rivals. As far as I know, just out of stock. Inquiry in to Tire Rack on projected availability.

ProDarwin wrote:

Mr_Clutch42 wrote: I suggest Continental ExtremeContact DW tires. They're the best tires in the wet of any street tire and handle excellent.

I was going to suggest these as well. You give up a tiny bit over the top of the ST crop, but they are awesome in the wet. After that, I'd be looking at Z2s. The answer is *not* RS3.

Another vote for the DW. They were awesome three-season tires on my E46. Good tread life, excellent in the wet, and all four can be rotated.

MattGent wrote: BFG Rivals. As far as I know, just out of stock. Inquiry in to Tire Rack on projected availability.

Response:

TireRack wrote: Unfortunately we do not have an estimated time of arrival from BFGoodrich at this time. Backordered product usually takes 2-3 months to arrive. These tires will most likely be ready in March or April. No guarantees, this is my best guess at this time.

Mr_Clutch42 wrote: In reply to z31maniac: You should go to an event in the next closest region because my region has trophy girls. I suggest Continental ExtremeContact DW tires. They're the best tires in the wet of any street tire and handle excellent. They are good on the autocross course, too. They're much cheaper than Michelin Pilot Super Sports, but are probably slower, too.

A third for those.

ProDarwin wrote: **gasp** Bigger wheels for *looks*!? You sir, are *not* hardcore! Its funny to see the guy preaching 17s and lightweight for performance running a tiny 205 and 7.5" wheel.

Since the original point of the thread was for a daily driving setup that could compromise for track, not the other way around, why not go for a setup that will net you the best ride quality with much more grip than stock for not a lot of money (less than $300 a set)? The 205/45-17 Sport LE tire was purposely selected as it has a slightly wider tread than the stock tire, the optimal fitment for a 17x7.5 wheel with regards to responsiveness, better acceleration benefit from the smaller diameter which better fits the power band, lowers the whole car's CG at least .15" via its smaller radius, and outperforms larger Extreme Peformance category tires in cold weather and wet weather. In the hot and dry it is close to that of the Ecsta XS compound (which is very good on track with this car - I've used those on the Kosei K4R set that was for track duty [17x8 wheel @ 15.6lbs with a +36 offset]). Comparing the 215/45-17 XS to the 205/45-17 Sport LE's...the Sport LE's just do everything better for daily driving. Better damping of impacts, better transitional responsiveness, better grip in temperatures below ~40 degrees, better wet grip, and not as noisy. The only thing the XS does better is more grip level in the warm and dry... that's it.

The best solution really is two sets of wheels - one for DD and one for Track. The Sport LE's in 205/45-17 have just about the perfect balance of agility and grip on road I was looking for out this car. The 215/45-17 Ecsta XS are a little too much tire, actually taking away some of the fun and tossability of the chassis in daily driving. Though on track the Extreme Performance category tires would be my choice at a minimum (DOT-R would be preferable of course), for daily driving they are more of a compromise when compared to Max Performance category tires.

I've had my share of stripped out/gutted daily drivers built for track duty on wide wheels and DOT-R rubber... gets old after a while, especially when weather turns colder and the grip level drops off more suddenly. None of those cars have been as fun as a stock FRS on the road either. The FRS has a phenomenal stock chassis that communicates extremely well, and that communication is made better by unburdening the suspension of unsprung mass when you can. Not going for 'best grip' or a track setup with this car (mainly because its reliability is questionable, higher grip levels and track use will just exacerbate things); going for a DD setup that is better in ride control while enabling the car to dance in a more surefooted and intimately responsive manner at a quicker and more precise yaw rate - i.e. agility (on a budget of course). Reason is that it allows me to be more delicate/precise with inputs, guiding the vehicle through suggestion and pressures rather than angles and positions. That's my philosophy towards DD and this vehicle is perfectly suited for it and can actually achieve all of those traits astonishingly easily (basically just proper wheel/tire selection along with solidifying the steering rack bushings.) You're free to go with a more grip setup with bigger wheels/tires - but you are doing so at the expensive of agility. You have to sacrifice some of one to go with an increase the other.

z31maniac wrote:

ProDarwin wrote: **gasp** Bigger wheels for *looks*!? You sir, are *not* hardcore! Its funny to see the guy preaching 17s and lightweight for performance running a tiny 205 and 7.5" wheel.

And the tire selection as well. Just going with 17x8 RPF1s and a 215/45/17 performance tire would have netted much better performance gains and likely dropped 7-8lbs per corner.

I had a set of 17x8 +36mm offset Kosei K4R's (lighter and less expensive than equivalent sized RPF1's) with 215/45-17 Kumho Ecsta XS for track duty. There is an ~0.5 lbm difference between them and the 17x7.5 wheels with 205/45-17 Kumho Sport LE's. More important is the fact that the car is much better controlled and more responsive with the 205/45-17 setup than it is with the 215/45-17 setup, especially in the wet and cold. In the dry you are not giving up that much grip compared to the 215/45-17 XS compound. And while the time difference is measurable on track, if you really are concerned about measurable time differences then you would have 2 sets of wheels/tires - one daily set and one track set with DOT-R rubber. I say get an overall better daily driver set and just have fun on track and not worry about performance differences. And by overall better daily driver set I really just mean something lighter than the stock wheel/tire combo (~41lbm), not any taller, and with better all around performance capabilities... whether it is a 17" or 18" based setup doesn't really matter.

In reply to Mr_Clutch42:

I was coming in here to suggest the Conti DW as well. They handle all street duty beautifully, except for snow, but snow is irrelevant to the OP. I've had them on my E46 for a few years, including 6-8 autocrosses, and they still look and drive fine, even in cold wet weather. Not terribly expensive as good tires go, either.

Have to chime in on 2 suggestions already posted. I loved my SPTs on my ZX2 s/r, and I also LOVE my All Terrain T/As on my X-Trail.

My next car will get SPTs or their nearest equivalent for summer use and I can't imagine not putting All Terrain T/As on a truck or SUV.