Learn me: Mileage disposal unit...

So, I'm shopping an adventure type motorcycle.

I'm considering these two:

2007 BMW R1200GSA

2004 BMW R1150GS

I've also thought about:

Triumph Tiger

Kawasaki KLR

V-strom

Shaft drive is a big plus for me.

A buddy has a Tiger and the thing sounds like a tractor, apparently it's a thing with the triples.

I usually like Hondas so reasonable parts pricing and the fact that I do my own mechanical work will factor into the purchase.

I've checked ADVrider and the usual internet stuff. Does anyone here have any real-world input?

The internet makes the BMW sound like they eat final drives for breakfast. I've never had any issue from a Honda final drive. If you don't lube the splines, they get torn up but that's just proof that any idiot can neglect a motorcycle.

I do venture down gravel roads, logging roads, etc. There are plenty of gold-rush era ghost towns that I like to explore in this province. Most are at the end of a 2wd truck friendly road.

Leaning very heavily towards the 1150.

Thanks.

Shawn

Have you ridden all these options? If you're going to put tons of miles in, I would think the actual feel/ergos are going to matter more than what others have to say about the bike...

I've seen examples of all of those with 100k+ miles, I'm pretty sure as long as you maintain it well, which you choose will be a non-issue.

EDIT: You say you like Hondas: Africa Twin

I've ridden the BMW and the Tiger.

I'll be riding before I buy with anything.

Just thought I would find out if anyone here has any experience because folks on this forum are a little more balanced than others.

Well, I'll try to be useful at least a bit- I've ridden a current-gen KLR: it will do what you want, and it will run reliably, but the only thing it has over the rest of that list is offroad capability, and even then only by a bit. It feels like a really big, squishy dirt bike, and for packing on the miles, I'd rather have something with more cylinders. Out of those, my vote is V-Strom, if only for the capability and comfort per $.

I've owned several 1150 Oilhead BMWs, including a GSA. Rear drive problems on them seem to be the IMS bearing of BMW motorcycles, ie amplified by the Internet Echo Chamber. Mine had a few issues (leaks and finish, mostly, and of course the BMW dealer denied any sort of warranty claim), but overall it was a reliable bike.

Mind you, unless you're an experienced off road rider, I'd say they're a little to big and heavy for that but should be fine for a 2wd friendly road.

Keep in mind that if you're looking at one with an ABS/servo brake, the only way to keep them in good shape long term is to change the fluid exactly as per BMW's schedule. If you do it like most people do, you'll find out just how expensive that unit is.

Oh, and you need the diagnostic software to bleed the servo brakes, but my trusted BMW specialist had access to it. My last two 1150s (the GSA and the RT) both had the servo brakes, they take some getting used to but to me the ABS is worth it. Saved my bacon a couple of times in a wet London commute.

I like BMWs, the GS and GSAs are great mile munchers and I'm actually looking for another BMW as a DD bike.

I currently have a hexhead '07 R1200GSA which has the newer ABS without the pump. I bought it with low miles in September and have put 3k on it since. I know the stories of the final drive issue but I bought the bike anyway after coming to a couple conclusions...

• it never fails without warning, it's a degradation process you can monitor and it's typically pretty far on into the life of the bike
• the fix is new bearings that run $100-$200 and are a DIY for me
• ebay has lots of used drives for $400-$500
• it's not a super common problem it's just one that really hurts if you let the dealer fix it so the interwebz are all a tingle with $4000 billing horrors.

When I got the bike the first thing I did was the "every 12k" major service and replaced all the fluids with Redline gear and synthetic motor oil, adjusted the valves, balanced the throttle bodies and then beat the E36 M3 out of it relentlessly to see if it was going to show me real problems. Nothing was out of order. No metal chunks or burned fluid. No bad vibes. The only issue I found was the seal at the rear axle was weeping a little bit. Possibly from sitting for so long before I got it. It was $12 and about 10 minutes of my time to change. That is really all I've found in 3k miles so far.

I've ridden in rocks, mud, gravel, oil/chip, smooth asphalt, a bit of shallow sand, a snow storm and once... a nice 60F day. It has poise and good handling for a fat girl. It has comfortable seating for 5hrs in the saddle (more too - I just had arrived at that point ;) ). It does everything pretty well but nothing spectacularly. When I first got it I was disappointed with the power coming from a VFR 750. This bike feels slow and a little ponderous at first but after a tank or two (8gal!) you sortof get the vibe and realize it has enough torque that you are actually hauling ass - you just don't realize it because there is no wailing 14k RPM fury taking place. The ability to go anywhere you want carrying enough gear to sleep in the woods with a reasonable expectation the bike can handle it outweighs (at least for me) it's shortcomings as a real trail bike or a knee dragging canyon carver. It actually CAN do those things to some degree but it's a swiss army knife rather than a single tool. Without luggage it's surprisingly nimble.

With regard to the GSA specifically - I had to alter the stock seat to accommodate my short legs (5'10", 32" inseam). I could ride it fine but not comfortably in traffic stop/go situations or on slippery surfaces. If you are shorter you will likely have to consider changes or buy a regular GS and add the GSA options you want because it's really difficult to stop on a cambered dirt road when you can only get your tippy-toes on one leg down. I know there are guys who hop over at stops but ... 650lbs of bike + big panniers and a duffel bag make it unrealistic to be 100% successful with that ;)

Bottom line... I love the thing because I can get up here in the winter in the mountains of PA.

And it was steeper than it looks :)

Final drive problems are not just internet lore. Call around and try to find a used one. However that being said at least your smart enough to know about it and will not neglect it there not hard to maintain properly its just not the quickest job so people who don't wrench never want to pay the labor rate to do it right...and so they pay more down the road. Every bike has its issues, Ducati has belts with 2 year service intervals but are a load of fun in that two year span. Have you looked at the Hypermotard or Hyperstrada?

I'm going to put in a vote for the V-Strom, just because it is that good of a bike and you could probably pick one up new for what a used GS goes for. I'm pretty sure that they just got updated this year, not that there was anything wrong with the old ones. I took the 650 on a test ride at bikeweek a few years back, at the time I owned an SV650 and remember thinking it was pretty similar (which is a good thing).

This summer my friend and I rode rented BMW R1200RT's up and down the Cali coast and we met a lot of other motorcyclists. One that really stood out was a fellow on a wee-Strom (I think - may have been the 1000) with aluminum side cases. It seemed to us that he had all of the performance and practicality of our RT's but in a much lighter more "flingable" package.

In reply to 44Dwarf:

Just to clarify, I wasn't saying they're just Internet lore. However, the number of BMW final drives that fail aren't quite as high as some people seem to make it out on the web (hence the Porsche IMS bearing comment).

44Dwarf wrote: Final drive problems are not just internet lore.

I didn't mean to imply that - The vast majority of bikes never have an issue but it's real and it can be a $2000+ part from BMW if you let yours fail completely. I made my own case for going ahead and buying the bike because if you pay attention you can see it coming a long way off and take care of it before it fails for not too much money.

I agree with Tim, it is very much like the Porsche IMS failure in that it's overblown by the internet but it is a serious thing if it happens to you. Actually, it is more like the E36 subframe failures because it's completely avoidable/detectable.

also If I didn't buy a GSA, I think I would have been very happy with a KTM 1190. They were hard to find and out of my price range for the newer ones I could find. I think I paid too much for a 7 year old GSA as it is but atleast it's a keeper with great re-sale if I need to get out.

SEADave wrote: I'm going to put in a vote for the V-Strom, just because it is that good of a bike and you could probably pick one up new for what a used GS goes for. I'm pretty sure that they just got updated this year, not that there was anything wrong with the old ones. I took the 650 on a test ride at bikeweek a few years back, at the time I owned an SV650 and remember thinking it was pretty similar (which is a good thing). This summer my friend and I rode rented BMW R1200RT's up and down the Cali coast and we met a lot of other motorcyclists. One that really stood out was a fellow on a wee-Strom (I think - may have been the 1000) with aluminum side cases. It seemed to us that he had all of the performance and practicality of our RT's but in a much lighter more "flingable" package.

I really liked the Wee 650 and 1000 on paper for bang/buck - I didn't ride one and I didn't try the BMW 650/850GS, Yamaha Super Tenre or the Tiger either. In the end I got myself all worked up over a low miles GSA that appeared in my price range. Tried to find a KTM to test... obsessed for a day or two, then pulled the trigger on the GSA based on being a BMW 3 series fan boy. The bikes share a lot of familiarity with the cars, believe it or not (I already have spare fuel pumps!) It was a great choice for me but I have no idea how close the call was with the competition.

Sorry if my 44Dwarf wrote: Final drive problems are not just internet lore. came off as being a DH. I just ment to say they do fail often and are not cheap cause there not a lot out there in salvages yards etc. Really any bikes on the list are good ones, but remember they've all made lemons or just problem bikes at times.

I occasionally had an F650GS as a loaner and I wasn't too fond of it for longer distances because it vibrates a lot in a not very comfortable way. Never ridden an F800, so I can't comment on that one.

Not in your list but I had a Cagiva Grand Canyon and it will demolish most bikes on a crooked back road, including everyone on your list.

I would also put the Suzuki DL650 on that list or the XR650L if you want something more dirty.

Out of that list I have done the KLR, R1150, Tiger, V-Strom, of that bunch, I would pull it down between the KLR and the R1150. If you are going to do more street R1150, if you are going to do more trails KLR. V-Strom is more of a tall street bike but it is a little too soft for my liking, I like the Tiger but I am scared of Triumphs when you are places you can't get help easily. No reason as I haven't had a Triumph long term, just too many friends with too many problems. Including a 955cc engine replacement at 30k.

Either way I don't think you will be disappointed in any of them.

Money no object, personal choice right now in the category I would either go with a F800GS (in a parallel twin in stead of the thumper in the F650Gs or the opposed in the R series) or a KTM 1150/990 Adventure R.

Few thoughts.

The more off road capable the bike is, the less paved road capable it is. Not an absolute hard and fast rule, but it's pretty generically accurate.

If you want to ride down dirt roads, any street bike can do it. With a little more all purpose tire (like the typical Dunlop tread), all the more easily and comfortably it will do it.

If you are seriously considering 4x4 roads as a regular thing, now you're starting to talk more dirtish orientation needs.

So you have to decide. For perspective, the two pictures above, I ride my Harley Road King on roads like those. The first one quite easily, the second not to easily. I will confess to having come to the conclusion that being able to do it just isn't generally worth the doing now. But, it doesn't mean I don't still quite regularly thunder that bike down dirt roads if they are going where I want to go. And of course my Honda XL500 is far more comfortable on both of those types of roads than the Harley is. It's also not nearly so nice on the paved roads as the Harley is. Lots more paved roads around here, and hardly any off-road(ish) things open to a dirt bike.

I ran dual-sport tires on my CX650E and it managed logging roads and gravel reasonably well.

My issue is, the bike is a bit small for me and my knees are getting sore. I'm good for about 500km in a day and I need to get off.

I want something bigger, more comfortable with more off-road capability.

I've found that the sport-touring riding position is comfortable for me but a cruiser or land barge like the goldwing gives me too much lower back pain.

This is all pointing me towards an adventure bike with cargo capacity.

Thanks for all the input guys, lots of good info here.

Shawn

In reply to foxtrapper: Agreed. 100%. I could ride a GSXR on the road in my 1st picture. The 2nd... not at all. The trick is to get to the 1st... I had to go up the 2nd. The GSA is a road bike with enough suspension travel and steering geometry to do stupid things at low speeds but it's just an SUV of bikes, really. Happiest on the road but competent enough to get by a good bit of rougher stuff when you need to.

A jack of all trades, master of none.

EDIT: OP, if you are a road rider who wants to explore new territory and do 2000 mile weekends the GSA is a great bike. Like I said above... I got sucked in and didn't try much of the competition but I am happy with mine. I'm planning to do the puppy trail across VT and hopefully the TAT (trans-America trail) after that and I fully expect to use my current ride to do it.

If you're considering the KLR, don't and consider the BMW 650's instead. So much nicer fit and finish, reasonably similar off-road capabilities, more power, better brakes, better seat and seat options, for not a lot more money. I like the Super Tenere a lot, but not sure if I like it better than the late model GSA's. It would be a definite contender for me if I were in the market for such a bike though.

So is this bike more for local-ish backcountry exploration (say total 300 miles in a day tops) or more for being a big mile eater (500+ days)? If it's the former, might I suggest going to the lighter, smaller end of the scale? My Yamaha WR250R has 44,000 trouble free miles on it now, has taken me from Maryland to Key West to Deadhorse, Alaska and damn near everywhere in between. It's reasonably adequate droning along the highway at 65mph, but an absolute blast on twisty 2 lanes down to tight enduro type single track trails. I preferred to give up some measure of highway comfort for more prowess on goat paths though, as the highways are the easy part whereas on the goat paths there's nothing you can do to make a heavy bike less heavy. And you can definitely load it up for travel, heck I moved to Alaska on mine.

You should add an Aprilia Caponord ETV1000 to your list. I have an '02, as well as 4 other knobby tired bikes. If I lived in a parallel universe and could only own one moto, she would be my keeper. No major issues with them. Sometimes the dash electronics fail but a guy on the AF1 forum repairs them, and coils fail every now and then but they're only $55 on eBay. It's like a fancy Italian Vstrom 1000 with tubeless spoked wheels. I didn't love the looks at first but it has grown on me and she has fully won me over with her charm.

http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?15-ETV1000-CapoNord-(all-years)

Just get one and ride it.

One what?

It was multiple choice but thanks for coming out.

I'm headed to the bike show on Sunday but I've pretty much made up my mind now anyway.

Unless I don't fit on the 'Guzzi for some odd reason, that will be the one.

Which Guzzi?

Sorry, I thought I'd mentioned it.

I'm probably buying the Stelvio.

It sounds like it's everything the BMW is with less maintenance and cost.

It's shaft drive and the engine goes the right way.

Nice. Will be curious to see what you think of the bike.