A company in Los Angeles has been advertising they will clear any stoppage for $99, except for the ones they won't (yes, it's a stupid commercial).
Clearly a 'Special', but gives you an idea of the prices, and shows that they may be moving to a task based rather then hourly based pricing.
I don't see how 90k/year is $100/hr net.
In reply to ProDarwin :
Overtime?
In reply to ProDarwin :
You missed the part where he also made an additional $50K on side jobs.
We paid $160/hr for plumbing work last year. Most of the job was digging a 3 ft deep hole in our backyard, and the plumber paid two guys who I bet made less than $15 an hour to do that work. Once the hole was dug the plumber fixed the pipe in like 30 minutes, then told the guys to fill it back in.
Oh yeah, the plumber charged us $160/hr for all the hours worked, even by the 'diggers'.
SVreX said:In reply to ProDarwin :
You missed the part where he also made an additional $50K on side jobs.
So he worked more hours? That wouldn't increase his hourly rate. I'm so confused about your math.
Anyway, all I was saying is that there are people who make $80k or 100k or whatever who may find their careers more fulfilling, have more fun, etc and thus don't consider that as a career path. I don't see why someone graduating school without great options wouldn't consider it.
Agreed, it seems to be moving more to a per-task orientation. I have a rental house, and recently had to have a new water heater put in. The cost was about $1500, and it took him roughly 2 hours.
Soon thereafter I did a nearly identical water heater installation myself, at my house (so there was no huge rush like there is with tenants) and my out-of-pocket cost for the heater, sundry plumbing, overflow tray, and expansion tank was about $600.
So the professional plumber made $900 for the installation. Granted, he sweated in copper (where I used CPVC for most of mine) so there was some more material cost, and more labor, and he did have to drive his van there, so figure in a few bucks for the mileage. Still, I bet dollars to donuts he grossed 600 or 700 bucks for 2 hours of his time.
In reply to ProDarwin :
His base salary is $90K.
His side jobs were an additional $50K, mostly cash.
He generally works 6 hours per day, and often does his own side jobs during the “normal” work day while he is on the clock with his employer.
Drives his employer’s truck to his side jobs.
6 hrs per day, 5 days per week, 50 weeks per year= 1500 hrs per year. $140,000 revenue divided by 1500 hrs= $93 per hour.
There might be a few more hours, but there is also a lot he is not paying taxes on. Minus his business expenses for his side jobs. Plus the profits on materials for his side jobs.
Hard to be too accurate, but $100 per hour net is the right ballpark.
But the math doesn’t really matter at some point....
Robbie said:We paid $160/hr for plumbing work last year. Most of the job was digging a 3 ft deep hole in our backyard, and the plumber paid two guys who I bet made less than $15 an hour to do that work. Once the hole was dug the plumber fixed the pipe in like 30 minutes, then told the guys to fill it back in.
Oh yeah, the plumber charged us $160/hr for all the hours worked, even by the 'diggers'.
So, the “crew rate” was $480 per hour. $15 for each of the laborers, and $450 per hour for the plumber, right?
Like I said- heck of a business!
I've been telling people for years what I had to learn the hard way. I finished HS in 1990 when EVERY adult told me I had to get a 4 year college degree to be happy in life. Not one soul said I could enjoy my work and make a livable wage if not a lot of money if I were to find a trade that suited me and stick with it. My thoughts combine the lack of 2 parent households and the FACT that college is not for everyone, nor should it be, in saying they should have "man class" or a politically correct version where students are required to learn how to use basic hand tools (lots of homes with no man in them, could benefit females quite a bit) , safe way to cut up a limb, jack up a car, cut grass, hold the door for a lady, handshaking 101 etc.......
My friend was a plumber for years before he started a bike shop, later a dealership. He said there are three things you need to know to be a plumber:
Here's a recent and interesting NPR article that's relevant:
I come to work everyday at a wastewater plant. At least I'm in the office/lab so that makes it better. I just tell people to keep on pooping and I'll be set for life. So yes people, plumb away and send me your poop!
If an employee was using my truck and tools and clock time for side work they’d be in deep E36 M3.
The math doesn’t really matter when you’re a criminal. This isn’t a guy who should be held up as a good example, he should be reported for what he’s doing. I’m sure his employer would like to hear that he’s racking up miles on the company van on company time to do cash side work.
My manager boss and I would discuss retirement work. An electrician, plumber, or carpenter can do side work later in life
All we could do is put together an excel spreadsheet for you.
I have a friend who's kid (early 20's) is making BIG money installing artificial turf (his own company after working for a bit for another company).
Basically, in many of these fields, there are SO many flakes and a-holes, if you are just a hard working person who does what you say you will do... you will get as much work as you want (once the word gets out).
Fletch1 said:Here's a recent and interesting NPR article that's relevant:
I come to work everyday at a wastewater plant. At least I'm in the office/lab so that makes it better. I just tell people to keep on pooping and I'll be set for life. So yes people, plumb away and send me your poop!
Good article. Thanks for sharing.
Patrick said:If an employee was using my truck and tools and clock time for side work they’d be in deep E36 M3.
The math doesn’t really matter when you’re a criminal. This isn’t a guy who should be held up as a good example, he should be reported for what he’s doing. I’m sure his employer would like to hear that he’s racking up miles on the company van on company time to do cash side work.
I agree.
His boss knows. Doesn’t care. That’s how much work there is.
Getting back to what I think is the main point, trades are important work - how easy is it to find a good, honest, do -it-right-the-first-time auto repair shop? The nation's infrastructure needs good tradespeople to keep it running. We can't all be college grad workers in high-tech industries. Tradespeople (and also teachers) are really, really important.
When I graduated from undergraduate school 50 years ago, the graduates were talking about their plans for the future. One who lived across the hall from me said he was going to be a plumber working for his father. He was a history major. We asked him why, and he said that the degree helped him to become a more well-rounded person, but that he had always intended to be a plumber and eventually take over the business. His starting salary was WAY beyond that of any of the rest of us. So college and the trades are not mutually exclusive, but the trades should be thought of as an honorable and important way to make a living.
Meanwhile, this is one isolated case. Take a look at average plumber salaries. I think this may answer the question you posed in the original post.
https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Plumber/Hourly_Rate
Patrick said:If an employee was using my truck and tools and clock time for side work they’d be in deep E36 M3.
The math doesn’t really matter when you’re a criminal. This isn’t a guy who should be held up as a good example, he should be reported for what he’s doing. I’m sure his employer would like to hear that he’s racking up miles on the company van on company time to do cash side work.
I want to revisit this, because the black and white assessment that both you and I have offered is unfair.
I inappropriately made it seem acceptable. That wasn’t my intention. Tax evasion is not ok.
Your reference to “criminal” is true, but harsh. The only crime he’s committed is tax evasion. Anyone who has ever received a cash payment without reporting it, or transferred an open car title to a buyer without ever having put the car in their name is also guilty of the same. Tax evasion. That covers most people in construction, and most people on this forum.
I am not excusing it, but I am recognizing it as an uncomfortable reality.
As far as the truck, tools, and company time, that’s not a crime. It’s a company perc. The company sells commercial and industrial plumbing services. They need to have a plumber available on call at all times to provide those services. They are completely aware that this guy does residential work on company time. When they call, he drops what he is doing and responds. That’s his job.
You don’t have to run your business that way, or like what they do. But it is the way the industry works, and is completely legit.
ProDarwin said:Meanwhile, this is one isolated case. Take a look at average plumber salaries. I think this may answer the question you posed in the original post.
https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Plumber/Hourly_Rate
Those are average reported W2 salaries. That’s not reality.
SVreX said:ProDarwin said:Meanwhile, this is one isolated case. Take a look at average plumber salaries. I think this may answer the question you posed in the original post.
https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Plumber/Hourly_Rate
Those are average reported W2 salaries. That’s not reality.
I don't see anything about W2 in those links. The first specifies its from survey respondents.
I'm betting any of those 3 better represents what the median plumber is making than the guy in your example.
I've often thought that a GREAT retirement side-gig would be a neighborhood handyman.
Give all your neighbors your number (i.e. put up a sheet of paper in the coffee shop and the grocery store), work only on very small projects that take less than 2 days, and only commute via bicycle. Don't get into stuff that requires permits. Do stuff like replacing faucets, ceiling fans, caulking gaps, changing lightbulbs in hard to reach places, tightening banisters, fixing furniture, maybe fix a toilet leak, patch a hole in the wall, replace a few deck boards, etc. Now I'm not a legal expert in this area, so I'm not sure what all requires a permit/license and what doesn't but you get the idea. Basically just do all the stuff that is very slightly above the head of most homeowners these days but is quite easy if you have the right tool.
If you are retired or semi-retired it basically just means you get more fun stuff to use your tools on while developing relationships with your neighbors and helping your neighborhood stay in good shape (which keeps your own home value high). You can charge low rates too because you don't need tons of money or have any employees/overhead.
How great would it be to wake up in the morning, go ride down the street, have a cup of coffee with a nice old couple, redo all the trim in their hallway and then be home for lunch with $200 in cash in your pocket? I think people would love the crap out of you too.
In reply to Robbie :
I'd hire someone like that in a heartbeat.
Fletch1 said:Here's a recent and interesting NPR article that's relevant:
I come to work everyday at a wastewater plant. At least I'm in the office/lab so that makes it better. I just tell people to keep on pooping and I'll be set for life. So yes people, plumb away and send me your poop!
Great article.
My fiancee is a graphic designer. Wages have fallen considerably in our area for it, and after she got her new job and was hiring designers there were lots of applicants for a 13$ an hour job.
You would be very very hard pressed to find any construction job paying that little. And you dont need to go to school for it. And you are paid while you get trained. And its a good life skill. And you can do it after retirement as a side job later in life as previously mentioned.
Or you can go to school for 2 to 5 years, get into 100s of thousands of dollars in debt, and be one of 100 people trying for one job.
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