90 days in gaol for shingling his roof

http://reason.com/brickbat/2011/08/09/up-on-the-roof

Up on the Roof Charles Oliver | August 9, 2011

A Jackson, Minnesota, judge sentenced Andrew Espey to 90 days in jail, 60 with good behavior, and fined him more than $2,000 for shingling his roof after he discovered a leak. State law requires old shingles to be removed, and Espey ignored a building inspector's stop-work order and placed new shingles over the old ones on his roof. The jail released Espey after 17 days for medical reasons, and the judge reduced the 73-day balance of his sentence to 30 to be served on a home monitor or three days at a time in the jail.

I can't believe that the judge was so lenient. Criminals like Andrew need more time for rehabilitation. Everyone knows that 2 layers of shingles are unsafe, even deadly.

I understand building code, and I agree that shingling over top of existing shingles is a bad idea.

Jail seems a bit extreme....

Note that the jail time was NOT for shingling the roof, but for violating the stop-work order issued by a city official with the authoritay to issue one. Big difference.

Streetwiseguy wrote: I agree that shingling over top of existing shingles is a bad idea.

Why? I have been a roofer, this is common practice in Ohio (only 1 time tho, 2 layers is the limit). Where is the issue?

Well, we don't know all the facts, but my guess is the scenario went something like this:

Inspector comes by and tells the guy to quit it, guy tells inspector to go piss in the wind, inspector involves cops, who introduce him to the judicial process, through which guy wears his best, biggest asshat, judge is compelled to remind him that there are laws and that you are not exempt, so here's some jail time to sit and think about it.

In the link, he was arrested again, apparently for continuing to wear that very same asshat at a town council meeting...

Michigan allows 3 layers...whats the problem?

Way to stay classy MN. We can't keep our government open because they're all mad at each other, but we can send a guy to jail for fixing his own house.

It is the man's own house, not a contracted job. If the roof is leaking and there is limited time I would shingle over the old ones without hesitation.

4cylndrfury wrote:

Streetwiseguy wrote: I agree that shingling over top of existing shingles is a bad idea.

Why? I have been a roofer, this is common practice in Ohio. Where is the issue?

1) It's heavy, and (especially on preengineered truss roofs) may exceed the allowable dead load.

2) No chance to inspect for deteriorated sheathing if you don't pull the roof off. Once we got the old roof off, we had to replace all the sheathing on the north side of my house even though it looked fine from the inside.

3) No way to know if proper vapor barrier/felts were installed under previous roof.

4) You don't get as good a roofing job, and it sucks.

Some places will let you put 1 reroof over an existing roof but make you tear off if there are already 2. But for the cost of an extra 4-8 hours of labor it takes to tear off, plus a dumpster pull, there's no way I wouldn't pull an existing roof off before putting another down. You want the new roof to last 30 years - why hamstring it to save $500?

[Edit] - yes, I would patch a square or two over an existing installation, if it was just a leak I was fixing. But for a whole roof, no way I'd leave the old one.

4cylndrfury wrote:

Streetwiseguy wrote: I agree that shingling over top of existing shingles is a bad idea.

Why? I have been a roofer, this is common practice in Ohio (only 1 time tho, 2 layers is the limit). Where is the issue?

Yep, no problem as l ong as it's only two layers. Like you said, it's common pratice in Ohio.

A little bit more info. http://www.keyc.tv/story/15176536/jackson-man-jailed-for-shingling

Um. That's crazy. I really wish all the people who talk about keeping government out of our lives would concentrait on some of these issues. It seems like they would be more likely to actually be changed and have real imact on people.

They can make the code whatever they like, but shouldn't that just be a disclosure when you sell the thing? Damn, I did some wiring on my old house with no permit at all. When we sold it, I told the guy who was looking at it and showed him the work. But nobody talked about sending me to jail. Jeez.

I find the 1 by four wood into shingles and then hit it with big aluminum sheets very nice . The judge and code enforcement hmmm might be in for some trouble if this guy kicks the bucket over this ..........

totally useless BRM engine revving

Where was that inspector when my house was built? Mine has two layers of shingles. Sheathing? What's that!

Two layers will not last as long because it retains the heat from the sun and cooks the shingles.

It will all be coming off next year and done right!

But jail time? Good grief!

two layers is allowed here in NJ too.

I do agree.. pay extra to get it done right and it will last a LONG time

There's something fishy about the story - Minnesota does allow two layers of shingles on a residence.

stuart in mn wrote: There's something fishy about the story - Minnesota does allow two layers of shingles on a residence.

You're right.... except almost no one has two because they get torn off by hail every 5 years or so. It's like a free roof replacement plan!

without digging deeply enough to find the facts, I'd speculate that the stop work order was because he didn't have a building permit...

the plant where I work was fined by the town for no permit and all they were doing was partitioning some office cubicles ....

then the operations manager showed his ass ( as he does day in and day out ) and got on the inspectors bad side, so she pointed out that the use of wood to frame the walls was not allowed anywhere in the plant ... now many thousands of dollars later we are almost in compliance .... with his E36 M3ty attitude I'm sure she'll find more things that need to be taken care of

Duke wrote: Note that the jail time was NOT for shingling the roof, but for violating the stop-work order issued by a city official with the authoritay to issue one. Big difference.

+1

It was for IGNORING the stop work order!!!

Around here, any warranty supplied by the shingle manufacturer is void if the roof isn't stripped. I've seen it done, but the top layer generally goes away pretty quickly.

Hold on a sec. He had a building permit. It was only part of the roof he was double-layering. It was his roof. Now, I agree with the "if you're gonna do it, do it right" school of thought, but good grief! It's HIS HOUSE!!!!!!!!!!!. It's not like he was a fly-by-night contractor, roofing some poor helpless widderlady's house. If a pig wants to make a house out of straw, I say let him. Nanny state! Protecting us from ourselves! Sheesh!