ACLU looks into license plate tracking

Another round of Cash for Clunkers should pull those pre OBDII cars off the road. Anything w/o OBDII will be labeled as a combination of unsafe or inefficient and getting them off the road will "be in your best interest."
Yeah, right.

PHeller wrote: Another reason we need more bicycle infrastructure, in the future it'll be the only way to get around without being tracked.

I invite you to ride your bicycle 15 miles each way to an office job when it's 90° at 6am and 114° at 5pm.

I'm all for better public transportation infrastructure, but it's just not feasible outside a few large, concentrated areas.

I think the insurance companies charging too much/refusing to insure old cars can do it without any help.

And OBD2 isn't really necessary. These things use GPS, accelerometers and gyroscopes, those can give you most of the important information without any of the car's electronics.

I want to do that Progressive snapshot tryout for 30 days......attend as many autocrosses, track days, and dragstrip nights as I can.......then watch the insurance people's horror when they view the data.

Then point out to those morons that a.) no speeding tickets, b.) no accidents, and c.) chances are I'd be a better driver than anyone in there.

if that didn't get me blacklisted, idk what would

In reply to yamaha:

I bet the Auto-x would be the most confusing one. No big top speeds, just lots of short bursts of acceleration in an area so small the GPS will barely have shown that you moved.

EDIT: Looks like he deleted his post.

Good for you. The point being it's not realistic for most people.

There is no way for me to shower at my job, sitting at my desk stinking up the place isn't too professional, and there isn't a route for me to ride that wouldn't be incredibly dangerous.

Riding a bus also out as my commute time would go from 20min each to nearly 2hours each way.

I noticed that the article said "we don't know how the information is being used"

More than likely it is being used by BIG BUSINESS as a way of getting an edge over the Chinese on our homeland market. Big corporations sponsor tracking information for public safety, but as part of their sponsorship they get access to the data so long as the data hides say...your name.

Corporations then use this information to more effectively sell you stuff you dont need.

Everyone assumes that this over-reaching government...more than likely it over-reaching business.

Take my job for example. ESRI makes ArcGIS, which is an excellent mapping product, and very useful for my jobs. It easily saves me 1-2 hours every day that I would be flipping through paper maps trying to find information about properties.

However, ESRI sells this stuff HARD. Not only to government, but to businesses. They want business to know how valuable this information is to them. Oil and gas then in turn purchase information from government entities who use tax-payer dollars to collect data. In this case, it drives the economy, but it is driven by the corporation who stand to reap the benefits. Me? I still get paid peanuts while the guy in the gas company makes twice what I do.

In the end, this technology is not making someone in government rich. This is making them better at their job. The only people who get rich off this technology are the businesses producing it and the business buying the left-over information.

Government want promote growth of the economy, they want to give America the edge. They support technology that makes it more easy to predict the flow of information, of people, of products, trends, etc. When they can predict how/when/why you will purchase something to support the economy, government will say to big business "congrats, you've grown!" and in reality it us the marching ants that get screwed.

This is what concerns me about having government run by ex-businessmen. I worry that businessmen will look for some way of government work for them, so that when they leave government they'll be able to settle into the nest they've made for themselves with all those government connections. In my experience the best and brightest professionals I've worked with in government were social servants. They lived their entire lives working for John Q. The worst were business folk who thought they could make things more efficient and promote growth...for their friends and themselves.

GameboyRMH wrote: And OBD2 isn't really necessary. These things use GPS, accelerometers and gyroscopes, those can give you most of the important information without any of the car's electronics.

All the more reason to install them on the driveshaft.

Beer Baron wrote: In reply to yamaha: I bet the Auto-x would be the most confusing one. No big top speeds, just lots of short bursts of acceleration in an area so small the GPS will barely have shown that you moved.

You're behind the times. A good GPS these days will record the course layout pretty accurately, and it would show up as a great deal of sudden accelerations and hard turns and stops (using the accelerometer & gyro readings) which will adjust your driving smoothness quotient and look bad to the insurance company.

PHeller wrote: More than likely it is being used by BIG BUSINESS as a way of getting an edge over the Chinese on our homeland market. Big corporations sponsor tracking information for public safety, but as part of their sponsorship they get access to the data so long as the data hides say...your name.

I wouldn't like big business having my info either, even if it makes some local rich dude richer than some foreign rich dude. You can't change how businesses handle your info by voting.

GameboyRMH wrote:

PHeller wrote: More than likely it is being used by BIG BUSINESS as a way of getting an edge over the Chinese on our homeland market. Big corporations sponsor tracking information for public safety, but as part of their sponsorship they get access to the data so long as the data hides say...your name.

I wouldn't like big business having my info either, even if it makes some local rich dude richer than some foreign rich dude. You can't change how businesses handle your info by voting.

As of March of this year... they can all have and share your info.

The Biggest New Spying Program You’ve Probably Never Heard Of

What I find interesting is that people seem to think that the way things were, are, have been, whatever, are the way things will stay forever.

The 1850's through the new millennium has (IMO) been a weird existence, almost an experiment of mankind. I think that people are going to be realizing sooner or later that that 150 year period was never destined to be available forever, and quite possibly might have been the epitome of freedom people hold onto so dearly.

Before the 1850's, the world was "small", as in, you really only knew an area of (insert square km's here). It was pretty easy for some king/"government" to control you. All of a sudden, technological developments in EVERYTHING explodes. Society starts to become more fluid, and this movement is allowed by democracies starting to pop up everywhere. People have the choice to do what they want. The ability to harvest the earth and turn those resources into material wealth opened up to everyone (in a sense). Skies the limit type deal.

And then you get to the new millennium. Everything's been done. People are everywhere. Technology now gives the people with power the ability to watch over everyone. Very 1982-esque.

My whole point in a roundabout way, is that the ability/power to control people was diminished after 1850 (as an arbitrary point in time mind you) and now things are starting to come back around full circle after the year 2000. The only difference being that we are even more complacent now compared to then, as we have access to literally ANYTHING we want, besides the most important thing of all; freedom.

When Mars colonization opens up and if I'm not dead, you can bet where I am heading

My whole point in all of this, is how do you actually stop it. Do you, THE PEOPLE, really think you can stop it? Look at Britain, they already have this. Not saying you should stop fighting, but just saying to look at the reality.

slightly off topic, but I thought I'd share.

GameboyRMH wrote:

Beer Baron wrote: In reply to yamaha: I bet the Auto-x would be the most confusing one. No big top speeds, just lots of short bursts of acceleration in an area so small the GPS will barely have shown that you moved.

You're behind the times. A good GPS these days will record the course layout pretty accurately, and it would show up as a great deal of sudden accelerations and hard turns and stops (using the accelerometer & gyro readings) which will adjust your driving smoothness quotient and look bad to the insurance company.

Definitely, they aren't fly by night proof, but definitely capable of 3-6ft accuracy. Honestly, I doubt the Progressive snapshot is a gps anyways.....

I need to do this sometime........coincidentally I will be in the market for changing insurance before long......

In reply to Ranger50:

Exactly. That way you fund your own surveillance.

Forgot to put this in - /sarcasm

yamaha wrote: Definitely, they aren't fly by night proof, but definitely capable of 3-6ft accuracy. Honestly, I doubt the Progressive snapshot is a gps anyways.....

If it isn't now, it's only a matter of time. They'll all have GPS, accelerometers and gyros in addition to OBD2 and CANbus integration in the near future as the tech falls from "affordable" to "dirt cheap."

GameboyRMH wrote:

yamaha wrote: Definitely, they aren't fly by night proof, but definitely capable of 3-6ft accuracy. Honestly, I doubt the Progressive snapshot is a gps anyways.....

If it isn't now, it's only a matter of time. They'll all have GPS, accelerometers and gyros in addition to OBD2 and CANbus integration in the near future as the tech falls from "affordable" to "dirt cheap."

Probably.....which scares the hell out of me. And reaffirms why all of my vehicles are currently pre-95.......

yamaha wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote:

yamaha wrote: Definitely, they aren't fly by night proof, but definitely capable of 3-6ft accuracy. Honestly, I doubt the Progressive snapshot is a gps anyways.....

If it isn't now, it's only a matter of time. They'll all have GPS, accelerometers and gyros in addition to OBD2 and CANbus integration in the near future as the tech falls from "affordable" to "dirt cheap."

Probably.....which scares the hell out of me. And reaffirms why all of my vehicles are currently pre-95.......

I'm not sure how you think that helps. If Progressive hands you a little box and says "Put this in your car or bye-bye" it does not matter if its a model T or a new 997.

License plate recognition:

1) Solves a kidnapping case quickly, YAY! Technology GOOD!

2) Gets you busted because it can be proven you were in Chicago going to some floozy's house instead of in Alberquerque at your mom's, which is what you told your wife. BAH! Technology BAD!

Curmudgeon wrote: License plate recognition: 1) Solves a kidnapping case quickly, YAY! Technology GOOD! 2) Gets you busted because it can be proven you were in Chicago going to some floozy's house instead of in Alberquerque at your mom's, which is what you told your wife. BAH! Technology BAD!

3) It is used to follow the movements of registered members of the Libertarian party and to disrupt their ability to campaign effectively in states where they might take votes away from the Republican party.

4) It is used to suppress and/or disrupt a groups right to assemble - ya know - to discuss what they don't like about their government and such.

5) It is shared as part of requests from potential employers, marketing firms or local law enforcement with no legitimate investigation (maybe you are bangin' his buddies wife and he wants to know where to find you?)

Imagine how many commie pinko fags McCarthy and Cohn could have put to the torch with this kind of intel. No one today would ever do that. "Ate dinner at a known hangout for ne'er-do-well OWS folk, twice, did we mister Curmudgeon?" Crazy talk. We can all rest easy that it will only be used for good. Possibly to save all children forever.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote: License plate recognition: 1) Solves a kidnapping case quickly, YAY! Technology GOOD! 2) Gets you busted because it can be proven you were in Chicago going to some floozy's house instead of in Alberquerque at your mom's, which is what you told your wife. BAH! Technology BAD!

3) It is used to follow the movements of registered members of the Libertarian party and to disrupt their ability to campaign effectively in states where they might take votes away from the Republican party. 4) It is used to suppress and/or disrupt a groups right to assemble - ya know - to discuss what they don't like about their government and such. 5) It is shared as part of requests from potential employers, marketing firms or local law enforcement with no legitimate investigation (maybe you are bangin' his buddies wife and he wants to know where to find you?) Imagine how many commie pinko fags McCarthy and Cohn could have put to the torch with this kind of intel. No one today would ever do that. "Ate dinner at a known hangout for ne'er-do-well OWS folk, twice, did we mister Curmudgeon?" Crazy talk. We can all rest easy that it will only be used for good. Possibly to save all children forever.

6) 'Mister Curmudgeon, we see through a combination of cell phone GPS recodrs, license plate monitoring and credit card monitoring that you have never been near this Snorkelwacker dude'. Technology GOOD.

Autonomous cars will make all the tracking (and possibly insurance) unnecessary.

Around here (SF Bay Area) this tech has some great potential uses.

Get the uninsured off the road, haul away cars with expired plates parked on the street, etc.

NH and Maine have the right approach. Limit the use of the tech, put time limits on the length of time the data is held.

yamaha wrote: Definitely, they aren't fly by night proof,...

Uuuuh, planes fly GPS approaches all the time these days, and until the widespread of LAAS happens, they're basically using the same information your Garmin is getting.

On a related note: there'll be big money in OBDII spoofers, soon, I imagine.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: As of March of this year... they can all have and share your info. The Biggest New Spying Program You’ve Probably Never Heard Of

berkeley! I don't think I have enough tinfoil...

Secretariata wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: As of March of this year... they can all have and share your info. The Biggest New Spying Program You’ve Probably Never Heard Of

berkeley! I don't think I have enough tinfoil...

This isn't the kind of thing you need tinfoil for - this one is out there in the open. You need lawmakers and lawyers to think this is a very bad idea.

Osterkraut wrote:

yamaha wrote: Definitely, they aren't fly by night proof,...

On a related note: there'll be big money in OBDII spoofers, soon, I imagine.

As soon as the evil black box gets real, hacks should be quick to arise. Never underestimate the power of an easy greymarket buck.