adding 20 amp circuit to residence

When I built my shop I had to have the city inspector come out as each step was completed (slab, framing, wiring etc) and we had a discussion about home wired/built stuff, was it necessary to bring this stuff to code if it wasn't there already. Her reply? In that town, if you bought a house with, say, an addition that was not to code you were not expected to bring it to code. Weird. I guess that was in recognition of a house built in, say, 1925 before the local municipality set building codes. That whole conversation grew out of the realization that code specs a stud every 16 inches on center but my mother in law's house (built in the early 1960's) had studs 24 inches on center. It came down to, if she wanted an addition added the addition had to meet codes in force at the time it was built but the rest of the house need not be upgraded to meet that code.

The same thing applied to wiring; a house built with no ground two prong outlets and aluminum wiring would require that only additions to that system be done to the newer codes in effect at the time the wiring was done. So it was entirely possible to have a house wired with the aluminum no-ground wiring with, say, a kitchen wired with copper grounded 3 prong stuff.

I left that little meeting shaking my head; I understand why it's done that way but damn it's weird. I also had to disclose that the vinyl siding on my house was a tan 'double 5' which was no longer made, the garage was done in tan 'double 4' which is narrower. Code said the outbuilding had to match the main house, I got a pass because the double 5 wasn't available.

If anyone actually cares about this stuff, there is absolutely nothing stopping a buyer from hiring a professional (ie: licensed electrician) to assess the condition of the wiring prior to purchase.

More laws will do absolutely nothing to help.

In reply to Curmudgeon:

The building code does not spec studs on 16" centers.

It permits both 24" oc and 19.2" oc.

In reply to SVreX:

In Duck Ditch (Goose Creek, right outside of Charleston) it's 16" o/c and there must be hurricane ties every 3 studs (IIRC) on exterior walls, there must be bolted reinforced ties in each corner. The nails cannot be 'clip head' and must be ring shank, everything has to be built to withstand a 130 MPH windload.

Extra studs do not increase wind load. Code says 24" is OK for 130 mph.

You've got an inspector who does not understand the code. Pretty common.

I'd bet $100 that the "hurricane" straps they allow are not rated for 120 mph.

...and the code does not say hurricane ties every 3 studs. It says every 48", which is still achievable on 24" oc.

I'm not really trying to argue, but the code is very well defined. It is a pet peeve of mine when code enforcement officials don't know the code very well, and tell people wrong.

...it would be like me telling you the speed limit says you can't run full throttle.

A good friend of mine, a civil engineer, was a city code building inspector for a medium sized Texas city. Population about 50K. He knew his civil engineering, but he had to inspect a lot of things outside of his field. Inspecting houses is not exactly building bridges. He would just kinda look and see if it "looked right" and every once in a while complain that something wasn't right, even if he had no idea if it was or not, just to keep them on their toes.

SVreX wrote: US code is pretty universal- homeowners can do their own work on their personal residence. Permits and inspections vary by community.

I wired the house my brother still lives in when it was built. I was all of 16 years old at the time. I had a copy of the electrical code and followed it exactly. The township electrical inspector spent 2 hours looking at every part of it and passed it on the first inspection.

Electrical work is not hard to do with a little study and attention to detail. It is also dangerous if you don't pay attention to the details.

Guess I spent all that extra money on 16" o/c studs for nothin'. I could put them closer together but no further apart. The AWC did at the time spec 24" o/c for 130 mph windload but local codes can override specs like that and I was specifically told 16" o/cI'm not dropping $80 on one of the AWC manuals to see what the 2015 spec is. My house was built 16" o/c for both interior and exterior walls, I know that because I had siding and vapor barrier off for a cable running project and could see the nail spacing. I'm not thinking the builder did that out of the goodness of his heart.

There are local codes related to wind load down there which also specify the method of attaching rafters and roof joists to the wall top plate as well as their distance apart (IIRC that was 24", I do know it passed). I had to buy a whole heap of hurricane ties and the special nails they require and oh yes the inspector took pictures after she measured their spacing along with that of the rafters/joists.

The other thing was, a registered electrician had to be on record as installing the wiring. My b-i-l is an electrician, he helped me some but his big part was ginning up an invoice that I had to submit as part of THAT part of the inspection process. The SOB charged me $300 for that. Grrr.

In reply to Curmudgeon:

Probably following Dade County wind load and impact standards, rather than the IBC. That's one of the joys of living on the coast.

I think to use 24" spacing you have to use 2x6s.

In reply to Curmudgeon:

Yeah, you got had.

I figured they asked you to use a strap that would tie it to the top plate.

Probably those 4" or so "butterfly" ties, right?

A 130 mph wind will rip off the top plate with no issue.

There needs to be a 2nd strap tying the top plate to the stud. Inspectors almost never ask for them.

Grrr.

spitfirebill wrote: I think to use 24" spacing you have to use 2x6s.

Nope.

But you do have to stack your framing load. (The floor joists or trusses above need to be placed directly over the studs).

Part of the environmental initiative with Habitat for Humanity had us building with as little wood as possible (occasionally). It's actually possible to build a house with studs on 24" centers with a SINGLE 1x4 TOP PLATE (when properly stacked and strapped), and single studs in every corner (instead of the 3 or 4 typically used)

I don't like them- too much risk of error.

SVreX wrote: In reply to Curmudgeon: Yeah, you got had. I figured they asked you to use a strap that would tie it to the top plate. Probably those 4" or so "butterfly" ties, right? A 130 mph wind will rip off the top plate with no issue. There needs to be a 2nd strap tying the top plate to the stud. Inspectors almost never ask for them. Grrr.

Had to use those butterfly ties in conjunction with the wraparound ties over the top plate and bottom sill. The ties had to be in a continuous 'load path' line from the slab to the rafters. Believe me, I learned a LOT about the local building codes when putting that thing up.

Also see my edit concerning the 16" o/c in that house, and I believe Toyman is right, our area adopted Dade County windload and building codes. BTW, he now owns that house and garage, lucky dog. Also in the FWIW dept, my current house (150 miles inland and built in 1979) has the same 16" o/c stud spacing.

In reply to Curmudgeon:

Good.

Glad to hear they got it right.

(BTW, there are no local codes. Only local adoptions of various releases of National Codes, occasionally with local addenda).

Oh, and FWIW, 90% of all houses are 16" oc in the walls (24" in the roof trusses).

I've only built 1 building in 38 years of building on 19.2" centers. What a PITA.

SVreX wrote: It's not the electrical inspector's job to insure the entire house is up to code. It is only his job to inspect the currently permitted work for code compliance. In your case, the addition/ renovation work, NOT the panel.

Part of the issue when I do this sort of work is my job involves commercial/industrial projects, where sometimes code officials want all of a building brought up to current code if a renovation represents a certain percentage of the building value. The ex- does the same work (HVAC engineer), so we both tended to over-engineer everything.

One thing the local did ask for was hard-wired & interconnected smoke detectors throughout the entire house. That was fun. I did all of the rough-in wiring for them, but I don't think she's installed them yet.

It is funny what they'll look at and comment on and what they won't. I was somewhat expecting a comment on the new gas line I ran to the 2nd floor for a gas dryer. Not a peep.

In reply to Ian F:

Right. That is 100% correct.

But it is still true that the inspector's job is to inspect the currently permitted work, not the entire building.

So here is the logic...

Example #1: The law requires bringing the entire building up to code if ithe work exceeds X% of the building value. The new code work in the rest of the building just became part of the currently permitted work.

Example #2: The work does not exceed X% of the total value of the building, therefore it is not required to bring the building up to code. HOWEVER, the new addition DOES include a smoke detector, and the code requires all smoke detectors to be interconnected. Therefore, the new addition requires upgrading the smoke detectors in the old part of the building in order to meet code, which becomes part of the currently permitted work. The old building is not required to be brought to code, but the smoke detectors are.

Stupid, ain't it?

Update: After all of this thought and conjecture on the subject, before I started to put the new electrical line in I thought I would try it in the gfci outlet that I had changed to a 20 amp outlet while still having 15 amp breaker and wiring. I figured it wouldn't work because this particular compressor I got calls for 14 amps in the manual but was reviewed as needing 18 amps at start up. It is the Harbor Freight 21 gallon vertical one. It worked. One less project to complete.

My grandfather was killed by some dumbass who thought he was an electrician on a job site. I DIY a bunch of things, but I call a real electrician for sparky stuff.

In reply to slefain:

My problem is a deal with "real electricians" on a daily basis and I wouldn't trust most of them any farther than I could throw them...

Marie and I added a 50 amp circuit to the house so we can plug in the Taco Joint . We have 2 at the shopone on each end when the Joint is at the shop