Advice on getting depreciation from ins. companies?

On 9/10 on the way to work a young lady merged right into my Jetta and did some damage. I filed with her insurance (She got two tickets and already admitted fault to insurance) and I'm dropping the car off to start the repairs on 9/23. This is a 2012 Jetta with 15k on it and Ihave owned it since new (about 11 months now). They haven't mentioned anything about giving me depreciation costs back but then again the car hasn't gone into the shop yet either. I want to be prepared to fight to get them to pay that out. This is going to cost several $1000's to fix and will definetly bring the value of the car down overall. How do you guys recommend getting what is fair to you in these instances? Lawyers? Insurance commisioner?

Thanks

No chance in hell of getting depreciation paid. I wouldn't waste my time.

Besides, if its repaired properly, the car will come out of the bodyshop looking better than it went in.

Streetwiseguy wrote: No chance in hell of getting depreciation paid. I wouldn't waste my time. Besides, if its repaired properly, the car will come out of the bodyshop looking better than it went in.

2 things wrong with that statement, No chance of getting it?

First:

The car is worth less now. It's on its record that its been in an accident. It wasn't my fault and depreciation is owed to me.

A good friend of mine was rear ended in his GLI , it was 4 years old at the time but contacted somebody (not a lawyer but somebody who used to work for the insurance companies) and he drafted up a nice letter to the insurance company and got $3500 bucks for the depreciation of the car. I wanted to know if there are other methods before I take that route.

Second:

My 11 month old car with 15k miles on it with factory sprayed black paint and body fitment will not come back better than it went in. It will come come back fixed with all new OEM parts but it's never the same as off the showroom, even with the BEST shop doing it.

In reply to Datsun1500:

So you did this after the car was repaired or before?

In reply to Datsun1500:

I'd love to have his email. I'm dealing with an accident claim right now.

Datsun1500 wrote: It's called diminished value, not depreciation. Arguing for the right thing will help Most insurance companies recognize it now, but you will need documentation. I went through it about 4 years ago and found the best way was to hire an expert to write the report. The body shop gave me the number. For $150 he wrote a 4-5 page report showing what the loss was based on repairs, age, miles, etc. I sent it to the insurance company, they didn't fight it. I figured it was money well spent.

That's what I was looking for. Did you try to just go through their insurance company first before the letter and they gave you some lowball number? Thanks

When my wife's Toyota Yaris was hit I looked at the difference in blue book values from excellent to good and good to fair and used those numbers as my basis. I think I got 90% of what I asked for.

This totally depends on what state you are in. Georgia pays DV on every claim. In PA, you'll never collect a dime. You have to find out what the story is where you live.

Working in the industry as I do, I have a much different view of DV claims that you won't like, so I'll just stay quiet.

ddavid is right. I'm in the industry as well, actually responsible for my company's program for diminished value (dv) and generally have the same view of it as he does.

All states recognize the right to make a dv claim. Whether it's owed or not is another story. No state has come out with a law that says "You must pay x or y when someone makes a claim". It's purely subjective. This applies when you're making a claim against another carrier, as you are here. Making it against your own carrier is usually excluded in your policy. By the way ddavid, the real difference with GA vs all other states is that they recognize a 1st party dv claim.

If you want to make the claim, you'll deal with the insurance company directly. You'll need to show why your car is worth less than another...besides just the "public stigma" argument. You're free to hire an attorney if you wish, but you very likely won't find one to take your case. Only way you would is if you pay them a lot of money. One tip, don't use trade in value to try to make your argument. DV is based on retail value, not trade in. Trade in is naturally lower, that's how dealerships make money...buy low sell high.

I also don't agree that your car is never "right" again after the accident. A good body shop can make the car absolutely perfect...many times it's even better than it was before the accident.

I can't see the picture you posted, but honestly if the damage to your car is mostly cosmetic I probably wouldn't offer much, if anything, either. Once the estimate is done, feel free to give me the details and I can give you my honest assessment.

Klayfish wrote: ddavid is right. I'm in the industry as well, actually responsible for my company's program for diminished value (dv) and generally have the same view of it as he does. All states recognize the right to make a dv claim. Whether it's owed or not is another story. No state has come out with a law that says "You must pay x or y when someone makes a claim". It's purely subjective. This applies when you're making a claim against another carrier, as you are here. Making it against your own carrier is usually excluded in your policy. By the way ddavid, the real difference with GA vs all other states is that they recognize a 1st party dv claim. If you want to make the claim, you'll deal with the insurance company directly. You'll need to show why your car is worth less than another...besides just the "public stigma" argument. You're free to hire an attorney if you wish, but you very likely won't find one to take your case. Only way you would is if you pay them a lot of money. One tip, don't use trade in value to try to make your argument. DV is based on retail value, not trade in. Trade in is naturally lower, that's how dealerships make money...buy low sell high. I also don't agree that your car is never "right" again after the accident. A good body shop can make the car absolutely perfect...many times it's even better than it was before the accident. I can't see the picture you posted, but honestly if the damage to your car is mostly cosmetic I probably wouldn't offer much, if anything, either. Once the estimate is done, feel free to give me the details and I can give you my honest assessment.

I also don't agree that your car is never "right" again after the accident. A good body shop can make the car absolutely perfect...many times it's even better than it was before the accident.

A good shop can make it better than how it was before if it was 6 years old and dinged from parking lots for sure. A new car less than a year old owned by an enthusiast though? (garage kept, covered parking, the furthest space, freshly waxed always etc. etc.) There wasn't a scratch on the car.

I can't see the picture you posted, but honestly if the damage to your car is mostly cosmetic I probably wouldn't offer much, if anything, either.

I don't know your definition of cosmetic, doors fenders, etc etc. But it runs?

If I were to sell this car 2 weeks ago I might have asked $20k, now with a potential $4-5k repair bill and a mark or the cars vehicle report (which most lackeys use buying a new car like this, I don't because I buy old junk) , how much of a discount would that person want? That value is what I want, It's what I deserve BECAUSE that insurance company's client cost me a pile of time and MY asset, MY investment is worth less today than it was before.

"You'll never see a dime don't bother" to, in my friends experience and other members on here of getting hundreds to thousands of dollars back is big swing. It's too much money not to do it and honestly I'm absolutely tired of getting screwed by insurance companies. This wasn't my fault, this wasn't a beater. This is the most expensive, newest car I have ever owned.

HiTempguy wrote: Your bonus was probably based on how many claims you denied.

That right there shows your total lack of knowledge of this subject, so no point in any further response.

HiTempguy wrote:

Klayfish wrote: A good body shop can make the car absolutely perfect...many times it's even better than it was before the accident. .

Looooooooooooool. Yes, because your opinion isn't biased, amirite? OF COURSE you'd view it that way, being in the business you are. Your bonus was probably based on how many claims you denied. Are you a bodyman? No. You are absolutely incorrect though. There is no such thing as a perfect color match. There most certainly is 'good enough, but there isn't perfect, same with fitment, and you'll be lucky if they use OEM parts direct from the manufacturer.. As such, diminished value.

Exactly. The car is going to a VERY nice body shop that is the factory collision place for Bentley and VW. It's getting all new OEM parts with my vin but EVERY single paint and body man I have ever met said the best paint is factory if you can help it.

In reply to crankwalk:

crankwalk,
If you read my reply carefully, I said a shop "can" make it better than it was before. Not "always does". Like you said, it would be better than before typically on an older car. On a fairly new car, a good shop will bring it back exactly as it was before. If you don't think so, you need to find a better shop. That said, I've seen plenty of nearly new cars with really crappy factory paint jobs where the shop said "Gee, it may be hard for me to match this orange peel." Seriously. When I say cosmetic, that usually refers to non-structural components such as fenders, doors, hoods, lights.

Again, DV is purely subjective. Neither you or myself could come up with a hard and fast rule to say it's exactly "this" amount. How much someone is willing to pay for something is based on a lot of factors. The argument is used all the time that the car would now sell for less.

Not saying you have to agree, or have to like it. Just giving you perspective as both a car guy and industry insider. It's not trying to "screw" anyone or anything like that. Also not saying you won't get an offer. I would say that we make offers for DV more often than we don't. The trouble usually comes when the customers' perception of what they owe is very different than what the offer is.

crank, there's some strong & heady opinions flying here because of folks that see the other side of the insurance industry. you should tune out the noise and just focus on the benefits to you directly.

it sounds like you're already covering the big ones.

yes, require OEM parts. be careful, sometimes if a shop and an adjuster get together, used parts can come up. If you have no problem with a used OEM part on principal, i would require them to allow you to examine the part for your satisfaction.

yes, your car WILL have a diminished market value any time your VIN# is recorded in a police report or by a body shop. Thats how Carfax and the like check on the status of such things.

And it doesn't matter if it was repaired into better than before status. example: you have a hood that has 5 years of wear and tear and could use a wet-sanding and polishing. If that hood gets folded in an accident, even if you a:) fix the hood that requires a re-paint that covers up the 5 years of wear OR, b:) replace the hood, the value of the car has suffered damage because a legitimate record of damage has been created which affects how its valuated.

the exception to this is pre-existing 'damage,' like not wear-and-tear. if the same hood had a butt-dent on it, and the adjuster knows it, then they can make a case that the unrecorded damage you already had diminished the value of the vehicle.

also, it doesn't matter what amount an adjuster offers. When liability is confirmed, its what amount makes you whole again (up to whatever limit the other guys' insurance is). If they offer something that doesn't meet expectations, ask to see how they arrived at that value and have others look at it.

Great discussion here guys, I really appreciate it. I don't get run into every day (luckily) so I 'm not up on everything I need to do to cover myself.

Interesting. For once I feel I’m on the side of the insurance guys unless this is some super rare high price vehicle, which it isn’t.

A couple of years ago I had a fairly big accident in my C30, not my fault, the other guy got a ride home in the back of a Police cruiser with his hands cuffed behind his back. The insurance company paid to have my car fixed to factory new, including photographing the VIN stickers on the panels and re-creating them to apply to the new OEM panels. They matched the texture of the factory paint on the inner hidden panels everything. I defy anyone one to tell the car had been fixed, they even copied the wax pencil marks on fasteners and things, as far as I’m concerned it’s perfect. They held up their end of the bargain, I pay them every month, and when I needed them, they fixed it minty fresh.

Now I didn’t ask for DV or whatever it’s called and don’t see I’m owed it. Who can tell what that’s ever worth. If I’d sold the car a month later the loss of value could be $x, if I sold it 3 years later it could be $y, if I sell it 10 years down the line it could be $z. I don’t’ see how anyone can reasonably know how long you/they will keep a car to calculate it from. If they pay you $1,300 but you never sell the car are you going to send them back the $1,300 10 years down the line.

Klayfish wrote: I also don't agree that your car is never "right" again after the accident. A good body shop can make the car absolutely perfect...many times it's even better than it was before the accident.

This is one of the things I don't miss about being in a body shop. For some reason people think that it is still the 70's where everything comes in, gets slathered with a thick coat of mismatched enamel and sent out while the body guy and adjuster sit in the back with a couple of cigars laughing at how the berkeleyed over another dumb bastard.

Stand outside any halfway decent body shop today and try to find what part of the car was repaired. Like he said one of the only tells now is that it can be hard to replicate the orange peel that some new cars come with. There were many cars we worked on, many of them high end that came in with problems from the factory that left better than they started with. Several pearl white Audis come to mind where once they were fixed you noticed how blotchy and mottled the factory paint was

Under 5 years old IIRC allowed me to require new OEM parts. Just keep before and after pictures regardless, so when people say "ZOMG!!, its been in a wreck!" you can show them the pictures and prove it was cosmetic(that IS cosmetic). Granted, I still don't fully grasp the DV thing, but I'd feel less of myself if I took one and didn't lose any value on the resale.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson:

i understand your sentiment, but DV is not actually about 'if' you sell it when you get right down to it.

its about taking a snapshot of the vehicle value before it was damaged, and after it was damaged. that difference is what the loss is and that is how it is calculated. Its not about any other timeframe down the road.

if you feel you were fairly treated, then great.

but diminished value is not some 'gotcha' or 'flagrant misuse' or any such thing.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Interesting. For once I feel I’m on the side of the insurance guys unless this is some super rare high price vehicle, which it isn’t. A couple of years ago I had a fairly big accident in my C30, not my fault, the other guy got a ride home in the back of a Police cruiser with his hands cuffed behind his back. The insurance company paid to have my car fixed to factory new, including photographing the VIN stickers on the panels and re-creating them to apply to the new OEM panels. They matched the texture of the factory paint on the inner hidden panels everything. I defy anyone one to tell the car had been fixed, they even copied the wax pencil marks on fasteners and things, as far as I’m concerned it’s perfect. They held up their end of the bargain, I pay them every month, and when I needed them, they fixed it minty fresh. Now I didn’t ask for DV or whatever it’s called and don’t see I’m owed it. Who can tell what that’s ever worth. If I’d sold the car a month later the loss of value could be $x, if I sold it 3 years later it could be $y, if I sell it 10 years down the line it could be $z. I don’t’ see how anyone can reasonably know how long you/they will keep a car to calculate it from. If they pay you $1,300 but you never sell the car are you going to send them back the $1,300 10 years down the line.

You weren't at fault yet you went through the at fault party's insurance company?

In reply to crankwalk:

Sounds like he was hit by an uninsured motorist..........read past what you bolded.

Datsun1500 wrote: It's not about if the repair is the same or better than new, it's about the value lost because someone else messed up your stuff. How many times are there people here asking about a Carfax? If the OP was to sell the car, it would be valued less than one that was not in an accident, and it was not his fault. He did not cause the car to be worth less, why should he just accept it? My opinion is the insurance company can not make him whole at all. Fixing his car to "as new" does not make him whole. He had a 2012 VW Jetta that had never been wrecked, he will not have that now, he will have a 2012 Jetta that has been wrecked, and fixed. I hesitate to ask this, but... How come its OK to fix this damage to "better than new" but everyone was screaming about how a Honda dealer owed someone a new transmission, not one that was "as good as new" a few months ago? What's the difference?

This sums it up.

crankwalk wrote:

yamaha wrote: In reply to crankwalk: Sounds like he was hit by an uninsured motorist..........read past what you bolded.

Yup, teen age kid driving with a suspended license driving moms car without permission and no insurance plus outstanding warrants. Hence he left in cuffs. I actually felt sorry for him, I looked at him and saw a train wreck of a life in progress. I've no idea how a kid like that is going to get on the right track.

So, yes I went through my insurance and they didn't even ask me to cover my deductible or I was going to have to go after the dud in small claims court.

When it got to the body shop they guy was commiserating that it happened to my new car, it was actually over 2 years old at the time of the accident. Even after all that, I don't feel that I'm owed DV.

crankwalk wrote: This sums it up.

So what, the insurance will make the car right. If he doesn't want to take a hit on the value, keep it for 10 years. Insurnace is meant to fix the car, not protect it's value.