Age and mileage for a "trouble free" car?

Not exactly a what car question, but sort of. My 96 Caravan is getting pretty flaky, and while I really don't want to add yet another car payment, I'd like something a bit more trustworthy as a winter beater/utility vehicle/possible trip car. Probably something I'd keep for at least 5 years, and put 7500-10000 miles a year on.

So, as a general rule, how far do modern cars go before significant systems tend to start getting unreliable? Please note that I live in the rust belt. As a matter of fact, rust is what is mainly prompting this.

It'd be nice to pick something up that will probably go 5 years/50K miles without being likely to require anything more than routine maintenance. I was originally aiming for less than 10 years old, with less than 100K miles, but wondering if that was too restrictive, and if I could get away with stretching that.

Been thinking of getting a CUV like a Lexus RX, Toyota Highlander, RAV4, or a Honda CR-V. Maybe even some sort of midsize sedan, just something I don't care if it gets dirty hauling a few bags of mulch in the trunk.

I know this question is probably very region/brand specific, but what the heck, wouldn't mind hearing some personal experiences.

Truly trouble free? I don't think even new ones are that way anymore.

My uncle just traded in his 08 Tahoe with 380,000 miles when the timing belt snapped. Other than a K&N and Borla, I think that he pretty much did just routine maintenance for its entire life. He is in Chicago and the Upper Peninsula. Our Tundra and 4Runner both feel brand new, and both have over 150k.

Anecdotes, of course.

My 2000 Grand Caravan had about 70k miles on it when it got rear ended. Other than tires and fluids, I had replaced wheel cylinders, shoes, and part of the rear brake hardlines on it in 12 years of ownership. It was a little weathered but not rusty. Oh, I paid a shop $150 to replace the headliner.

The 2012 T&C I replaced it with has almost 50,000 on it and looks and feels brand new.

I'd rather own a religiously maintained 20 year old car than a 10 (or 5) year old car that's been beat on and neglected.

Very true on the older maintained car vs newer and neglected. Hard to guarantee when shopping for a used car, though.

I've hit a point in my life where my job is taking up a lot more of my time, and I don't want to spend the rest of it keeping a third car running, but the Abarth is not ideal for winter or Home Depot runs, and I really don't want to leave it in long term parking at the airport. The Caravan fulfilled those duties fine, until about two weeks ago. I've spent the last two weeks on and off trying to fix a brake failure that just keeps compounding. And with everything else wrong with it, its just not worth having a shop do the job.

I understand there are no certainties, but I'm just trying to stack the odds in my favor while looking at appliance cars. Which is part of the reason I'm leaning towards Toyondas. And why I've been researching which cars tend to have specific design flaws, so I can avoid them. After that, it comes down to what's the best I can get in my price range.

In its favor, anything I'd be likely to buy is probably going to be worth enough to me that I'd be willing to pay someone else to fix it if it breaks, if I don't have the time to do the job right.

Figures, there was a guy up the street from me selling a Caravan or T&C of that vintage a few weeks ago that looked far better than the standard 90's rustbelt van. I think he buys from down south and resells up here; he had a ridiculously clean 80s S10 a few months ago as well.

Sounds like you need a 5spd Accord wagon! Somebody from Atlanta had a group of early Odysseys (the ones that were basically tall Accord wagons) in the $2000 classifieds a couple months ago, which sound ideal for your application.

I think it was SVRex who had those. They were all a little on the high mileage side, but at least they probably wouldn't have been rusty.

This just went from theoretical to reality, too. Talked with my wife this evening, and she said she'd have lost patience on the van several days ago. So I may be putting up a what car thread later, or just continue on here. Whatever I get will be an automatic, comfortable, and somewhat boring. Preferably smaller than the minivan, too. Its just a matter of reconciling my budget and my wants with what is out there.

Edit: Oh and I would love a midsze wagon, but pretty much the only thing close to my requirements would be from Subaru, and I think high mileage Subarus and trouble free tend to not be spoken in the same sentence. Seems to me they last if taken care of, just require a bit more unplanned work than other Japanese brands. And the Germans are right out, there are already two euro cars in the household, I don't want to tempt fate.

It seems like the Ford and Chevy full-size vehicles tend to go and go and go. Not smaller than a minivan, but the Express vans, E-150s, 1500s, and F150s act pretty reliable from all the ones I've known and tend to have readily found and inexpensive parts. They're not smaller than a Caravan, though. But they would hold a scooter!

What about a Ranger? There are a couple auto 4x4 models for under $4k on cincy's CL right now.

The Cherokees seem to last forever, too. Here's a $2600 one: http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/cto/5177527915.html

There is no all-around magic number. It really depends on make/model/year... plus owners, usage, and pure dumb luck.

I think the best cars are about 3-5 years old with ~30k miles on them. Just old enough for the major problems to have shaken themselves out.

Higher than that... I think 90k-120k is where you separate the wheat from the chaff... or the good owners from the bad. At that point you know the car is solid and well maintained and will go 5-10 years without complaint, or it's junky and will be a PITA. A car with over 120k miles on it that runs well is like a hot 45 y.o. woman: you know this one is going to stay looking nicer and be lower maintenance for longer than most half its age.

Luck of the draw/brand. My 1995 miata with 150k miles was more trouble free than any other car I have owned, other than maybe the wife's yaris that we got brand new.

If you'd be willing to et a full size sedan as opposed to mid size, I'd recommend an '03-'04 Crown Vic, Grand Marquis or Town Car. They have the updated steering and suspension and are pre drive by wire.

The_Jed wrote: If you'd be willing to et a full size sedan as opposed to mid size, I'd recommend an '03-'04 Crown Vic, Grand Marquis or Town Car. They have the updated steering and suspension and are pre drive by wire.

If it weren't for the size, that'd be at the top of the list. I used to have a 2000 Grand Marquis, and have driven a 2004 model, and it was amazing how different they were despite looking the same.

Part of the size requirement is to make it fit in my driveway a bit easier, and part of it is a desire to have something that doesn't take up as much space going down the road. I used to love big cars (and still kind of do), but spending a lot of time driving around in compacts/subcompacts has made me enjoy having a smaller footprint.

While I have some concerns about their long term durability, I may have to look around for a Mazda5.

Datsun1500 wrote: You can get an Escape or Explorer with 80k miles for cheap, and they seem to just keep running. Cheaper to maintain than the Japanese ones.

Escape/Mariners are a possibility. I've looked at them a bit, but haven't done enough digging to find out if the V6 models had the some of the same issues that drivetrain had in the Mazda6. Something about a tendency for bits of pre-cat to get sucked back into the engine. Not as bad as it was on Sentra SE-Rs, but I've read more than one story of it happening.

Yeah... we can spout generalizations, but they'll be just that; generalizations.

When I'm looking for something like you mention, I tend to look at older cars with low mileage. The kind that a grandma drove to church on sundays. Since you asked for examples:

87 Cutlass Salon with 36,000 miles. I bought it for $2300. It had a 307, 200-4r, and the Rally/442 appearance package. (not a real 442). The shocks were leaking and the exhaust had rusted out, so $400 later I had a low-mileage bulletproof car. I drove it like that for years. It looked good, people gave me thumbs up, and aside from the styling it was as clean as a 2-year-old Camry that someone bought to commute.

The newer stuff never appealed to me; miles of wires, sensors, computers. They can be bulletproof, but when something breaks its not always just a quick fix. Older cars are also typically super cheap on parts. Blow an alternator on a VW Beetle and its $130 and the better part of a day to replace it. Blow an alternator on my 87 Cutlass its $25 and 10 minutes with a 1/2" wrench.

It is also that reason why I like the more common-ish (but unique) rides. In that Cutlass example, if I needed an alternator every parts store in town had 15 off them on the shelf. I could stop at Napa on the way to work and replace it and not even punch in late.

Bobzilla wrote: Truly trouble free? I don't think even new ones are that way anymore.

+1 for this. Lemons come in all ages, shapes, and sizes. I've seen brand new lemons, and old lemons.

I've been really impressed with the Cherokees, but you won't find a 5 year or even 10 year old one these days. The newest one is 14 years old.

Nissan Xterras from 2000-2004 are tough as nails. There's a reason you rarely see them in junkyards and I've seen some very high mileage examples still going strong. Even better at high mileage they still feel as well screwed together as a new one. 05-up not as tough, they are known for transmission problems.

Isuzu stuff from the mid to late 90's is similar, but unfortunately after they pulled out of the States a lot of them went to the junkyards over the inability to get some sheet metal parts. The early 00's (2000-02) V6's could develop an oil consumption problem, 03 to the end of production don't have that problem. The last 2004 Rodeos and Axioms had direct injection and an Aisin transmission which is good for emissions and performance, it's not failure prone but since there wasn't a monstrous number produced eleven years later there's not a helluva lot of parts around for that setup.

Curmudgeon wrote: Nissan Xterras from 2000-2004 are tough as nails. There's a reason you rarely see them in junkyards and I've seen some very high mileage examples still going strong. Even better at high mileage they still feel as well screwed together as a new one. 05-up not as tough, they are known for transmission problems.

+1 for the 00-04 Xterra. It's as close as you can get to an XJ for the 21st century.

Are the 05-up Xterras the ones that tend to get coolant and trans fluid mixed together?

I'll probably want something that gets better mileage than them, but I sure won't rule them out.

Wierd, I was going to suggest a 3 year old Mazda 5.

eastsidemav wrote: Are the 05-up Xterras the ones that tend to get coolant and trans fluid mixed together? I'll probably want something that gets better mileage than them, but I sure won't rule them out.

Yes, they have problems with the trans cooler in the radiator failing. The transmissions themselves are quite reliable as long as they aren't filled with coolant

G_Body_Man wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote: Nissan Xterras from 2000-2004 are tough as nails. There's a reason you rarely see them in junkyards and I've seen some very high mileage examples still going strong. Even better at high mileage they still feel as well screwed together as a new one. 05-up not as tough, they are known for transmission problems.

+1 for the 00-04 Xterra. It's as close as you can get to an XJ for the 21st century.

Agreed. We had a 2002 that faithfully transported me back and forth over my NYC to Boston commute without a problem and in all weather conditions. That truck was a tank and it's only downside was gas mileage, which was expected. The biggest problem we ever had was trading it in on a 2004 Grand Cherokee that was a total money pit and had 1/3 of the miles that the Xterra had on it.

"We recently checked the used car classifieds at AutoTrader.com and uncovered a long list of creampuffs in all vehicle classes that were not only pushing the limits of longevity, but had enough left in the tank to be seeking new owners. These included a 1983 Isuzu Rodeo SUV with 381,960 miles on the odometer, a 1993 Honda Civic coupe with 355,720 miles, a 1994 Toyota Land Cruiser SUV with 332,357 miles, a Nissan 300ZX convertible with 330,000 miles and a Ford F-150 regular cab pickup that’s clocked 290,000 miles.

“Today’s cars are built to last as long as 250,000 miles or more with simple routine care,” says ASE-certified Master Automobile Technician and Chicago Tribune auto-service columnist Bob Weber." ~ Forbes article

Reasonable expectation with minimal work is the 150k mile mark. Some better some worse.

Like a Land Crusier 300k miles with proper care would be reliable. A Land Rover Range Rover still on the boat being shipped to the dealer would be considered reliable...

Also, the newer the car, the more computers, the more nagging issues. Take our 2014 Cherokee Trailhawk. No seriously, take it away. We've had it a year, it's been in the shop for repairs or recalls about every other month, and all revolve around the computer-based systems. There was something nice and assuring about the simplicity of our old Xterra.