Alfa salesmen make EPA wanted list

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081210/ap_on_go_ot/environmental_fugitives

Also at large are the father and son team of Carlos and Allesandro Giordano, who were arrested in 2003 as the owners of Autodelta USA, a company that was illegally importing and selling Alfa Romeos that did not meet U.S. emission or safety standards. The two men are believed to be hiding out in Italy.

I didn't include the photo of his son, because he looks far less like a badass Mafia boss.

http://www.epa.gov/fugitives/

And Chris Dodd and Barney Frank walk the streets.

Wanted posters (check the PDFs) on a website with this as it's logo is just funny:

Not saying I condone any of the things these guys did, it's just hard to have a tough-guy, wanted-poster, bounty-hunter image when you've got that as your logo

Uh, yeah. How about Superfund site owners or other gross polluters? They want this guy because he made money without giving the govt. its cut.

And "hiding out" in Italy sounds like nice work if you can get it.

I condone the importation of fun of any kind (autimotive that is)

I wonder how many Alfa's they would've had to flog to cause the same amount of environmental damage as the guy who dumped 487 tons of diesel tainted wheat into the South China Sea.

Luke wrote: I wonder how many Alfa's they would've had to flog to cause the same amount of environmental damage as the guy who dumped 487 tons of diesel tainted wheat into the South China Sea.

Only one way to find out. Anyone fancy a drive?

Wang Taints Little Beaver

Jun Wang Wanted Poster (PDF) (1 pg, 80K About PDF) Wang was charged in the Southern District of Ohio on a one-count indictment. Alleged violations include: Illegally discharging a hazardous material into the waters of the United States. Wang discharged fuel from his tanker truck. This discharge of fuel went directly to Little Beaver Creek in Kettering, Ohio. Wang is currently a fugitive. He is believed to be living in Shenyang, China. If sighted, contact the Criminal Investigation Division office in Cleveland, Ohio at: 1-440-250-1770 or submit the Report a Fugitive's Location web form.

Thanks, I'll be here all week

alex wrote: Uh, yeah. How about Superfund site owners or other gross polluters? They want this guy because he made money without giving the govt. its cut. And "hiding out" in Italy sounds like nice work if you can get it.

All of those guys have had their day in court, and are paying the fines. These are the ones who have not. The EPA has a short list, so everybody is bundled togther.

amaff wrote: Wanted posters (check the PDFs) on a website with this as it's logo is just funny: Not saying I condone any of the things these guys did, it's just hard to have a tough-guy, wanted-poster, bounty-hunter image when you've got that as your logo

What's wrong with it?

Why do people like to make fun of the EPA?? I know many of the people who work a the EPA mobile sources HQ in Ann Arbor, and many are real car people, who have a genuine concern for the environment. Heck, our challenge car almost had an EPA sticker on it, since we had people help us build it....

But apparently it's cool to have no concern for the environment?

Sorry, but the guys on the list violated federal laws, as passed by the US Congress and signed by a President. They have violated serious laws.

Eric

In reply to alfadriver:

I like clean air and water also, for myself and my children. And I also like cars. The two are not mutually exclusive. The problem is there are hardasses that believe every regulation is direct personal attack upon themselves and they fail to see the big, long term picture.

I find it funny that our government thinks that cars sold in Europe are mass polluting death traps. Does the EU not care about its citizens or the environment? Maybe 25 years ago that was true bet not any more. I think we get screwed out of a lot of cool and economical cars because our regulations have not kept up with the times.

Case in point, I was looking at a Brit used car site and came across a SAAB 9-3 oil burner that the add said it got 50 mpg on the highway. Now it is the same body as the current 9-3 and aside from the low sulfur fuel why can I not get one of those here?

it gets 50 miles per IMPERIAL gallons. also because the US emissions don't differentiate between gas and diesel cars, the gas and diesel cars have to meet the same regulations. in europe, there are separate sets of regs depending on whether a car is gas or diesel

Wally wrote:

...all I thought of was :42 of this clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWB1oqncqL0

lulz

Wally wrote: Wang Taints Little Beaver

Brilliant!

81gtv6 wrote: I think we get screwed out of a lot of cool and economical cars because our regulations have not kept up with the times.

Agreed. I suppose now's the time to break out my If we allow motorcycles we should allow kei cars argument and get shot down.....again: http://archive.grassrootsmotorsports.com/board/viewtopic.php?id=30631&p=2

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81gtv6 wrote: I find it funny that our government thinks that cars sold in Europe are mass polluting death traps. Does the EU not care about its citizens or the environment? Maybe 25 years ago that was true bet not any more. I think we get screwed out of a lot of cool and economical cars because our regulations have not kept up with the times. Case in point, I was looking at a Brit used car site and came across a SAAB 9-3 oil burner that the add said it got 50 mpg on the highway. Now it is the same body as the current 9-3 and aside from the low sulfur fuel why can I not get one of those here?

Our pollution laws are much stricter than in Europe. It wouldn't comply. It also doesn't have OBD.

Oh, and we do have ultra low sulfur diesel in the US now (but that Saab doesn't need it).

stumpmj wrote:

81gtv6 wrote: I find it funny that our government thinks that cars sold in Europe are mass polluting death traps. Does the EU not care about its citizens or the environment? Maybe 25 years ago that was true bet not any more. I think we get screwed out of a lot of cool and economical cars because our regulations have not kept up with the times. Case in point, I was looking at a Brit used car site and came across a SAAB 9-3 oil burner that the add said it got 50 mpg on the highway. Now it is the same body as the current 9-3 and aside from the low sulfur fuel why can I not get one of those here?

Our pollution laws are much stricter than in Europe. It wouldn't comply. It also doesn't have OBD. Oh, and we do have ultra low sulfur diesel in the US now (but that Saab doesn't need it).

I was going to say the exact same thing. The rules are quite a bit different, especially for diesels, where a Euro diesel will not pass any standard in the US. I've seen the future laws, where in 2015, the EU will come close to where we are now, but that's another 7 years, and we will have moved on by then. (side note- diesel is in big trouble in Europe....)

I know some people think that this is some kind of personal attack- it's not. it about fairness, and doing the job that is required to sell cars in the US. Had these two characters just had tried to import ilegal cars, more than likely, they would have had the cars crushed, and they would have lost some money, and paid a fine.

but for the Autodelta guys, they also got people to PAY them, lied about it, and tried to skirt the minor penalty that could have happened. Just the fact that they fled the US to Italy so that they don't face the music tells me what kind of pond scum they are.

Forgive me for trying to make sure the laws are applied evenly across all who want to sell cars in the US. But it's only fair to those of us who actually make cars to sell in the US.

Eric

alfadriver wrote: Why do people like to make fun of the EPA??

For me, it's not exactly making fun. It's more a nervous sarcastic response to a concern I have with a government agency which is overly reactive to their area of enforcement and, more importantly, yields an improper out of balance amount of authority which is unchecked by other governmental agencies, scientific communities, or governmetal branches. Even Congress doesn't override them, and that concerns me.

alfadriver wrote: But apparently it's cool to have no concern for the environment?

I agree that it is a good idea to have concern for the environment. With the EPA introducing regulations like catalytic converters on weed eaters, however, I think they are out of balance.

My race cars have a VERY small carbon footprint, because they are driven very few miles per year. I make no apology for the fact that they have higher emissions per minute, because their overall output is still extremely low. But I will be unhappy when the EPA starts telling me I need to control their emissions.

I think emissions issues in say, China, are horrible, and I don't condone them. But our very national sovereignty is at risk when we impose regulations on ourselves which are way out of balance with some of our trade partners in the world, and there is clearly a huge gap between us and many Asian (and other) countries. Part of that gap is that we can't compete monetarily because we produce products that are more expensive to produce in part because of the EPA standards we impose on ourselves.

Balance, balance, balance.

alfadriver wrote: What's wrong with it? Why do people like to make fun of the EPA??

I have nothing against the EPA. Making fun of the EPA's logo and making fun of the EPA are a little different.

But the logo is kinda girly

Anyone here ever have to have a european import car smogged? My car was a real pain and cost too much money and time. I was on temp reg for 2 years. The state didn't have any knowledge. My car was imported from germany and they only psuedo federalized it. No one caught it until the new smog 2/dyno test. Man they put you through the ringers. I don't hate the EPA but when my car runs correctly it spews dangerous amounts of smog(NOx) and gets decent mileage, when it does smog I get crappy mileage and run like hell.