American shakedown: Police won't charge you, but they'll grab your money

In reply to revrico:

So you (self proclaimed "biker looking" dude) are travelling along a well known drug corridor with 10 grand stashed in the back of your SUV. You cross paths with a pair of dirty cops (obviously, since there is a 0.0000% chance that your money went anywhere near an evidence room) and the result is a virtual certainty.

I'm not saying you were in the wrong at all, but unfortunately you painted that target on your own back.

Do you think the outcome would have been different if you hadn't had a rolling paper, the money was in the center console, and you looked a bit more "mainstream"?

Again, I'm not saying you were in the wrong, but when cops see the same criminal thing 99 times in a row they don't expect the 100th to be innocent. They should, but we all understand human nature.

foxtrapper wrote:

tuna55 wrote: And I have to teach my four young kids to trust the police. How do I do this?

I can only tell you my own experience. When my boy was little, I went right along with the school on teaching him cops are good, and if he's in trouble and sees one he should ask for help. Cop = "good guy". Same teachers, someone in uniform, etc. And for a little kit, this is just fine. As he's gotten older and reads the news, his eyes slowly opened and he started to learn about bad cops. This transitioned smoothly to understanding that not all people, including cops, are good. It also has partially transitioned into his understanding that how he conducts himself will greatly affect the outcome of an encounter. I say partially here because he's still a kid and his thinking is still immature and highly hormone charged. But, fundamentally, the basic advice of if you're in trouble and see a cop, you should ask them for help still stands. As well caveat emptor.

This. Also, when my kids got their driver's licenses, Tim and I sat down with each and discussed what to do when pulled over--how to keep hands on the wheel and in sight at all times, yes sir/ma'am no sir/ma'am, what paperwork to produce and how to go for it... and what they legally must consent to (breathalyzer, field sobriety test) as well as what they must not (searches). I told them to never consent to a search. Never. Decline politely, and remain polite no matter what happens.

Margie

In reply to KyAllroad:

This kinda sounds like "sorry you got raped, but you were dressed kinda slutty"

He broke no laws, his property was taken. He got robbed. Not his fault.

I once dated a woman that was formerly a City of Pittsburgh cop. She told me many stories about corruption. Basically, she was run off the force because she didn't want to be involved in any of it and looking the other way wasn't good enough for them. There was more to the story but she never wanted to talk about that. She was genuinely afraid of being stopped within the city limits after she left the force.

OK, my curiosity has the better of me- what is the point in vacuum-sealing money? Keeping it out of sight I can understand, having thousands of dollars sitting out in the open is just a bad idea, but I'm at a loss to the usefulness of vacuum sealing it.

This whole topic is one that I've been frustrated with for quite a while since learning more about it- it's the kind of thing that it seems like any remotely reasonable person should read about and go, "That's just not right, it needs to be done away with," and yet it ends up going backward after even a little progress is made with them reinstating the program (and of course never being stopped by the local programs).

Can anyone who is NOT vested in this (LEOs, politicians who benefit from it) reasonably say that the police should have the right to take someone's property without even charging them with a crime?

KyAllroad wrote: In reply to revrico: So you (self proclaimed "biker looking" dude) are travelling along a well known drug corridor with 10 grand stashed in the back of your SUV. You cross paths with a pair of dirty cops (obviously, since there is a 0.0000% chance that your money went anywhere near an evidence room) and the result is a virtual certainty. I'm not saying you were in the wrong at all, but unfortunately you painted that target on your own back. Do you think the outcome would have been different if you hadn't had a rolling paper, the money was in the center console, and you looked a bit more "mainstream"? Again, I'm not saying you were in the wrong, but when cops see the same criminal thing 99 times in a row they don't expect the 100th to be innocent. They should, but we all understand human nature.

There is almost no other way through the area THAN this corridor, you have 101 south, or you add 3 hours on back roads. This is an unfortunate normality in the area. It's fun during harvest season when they just block the southbound lane and search every single car. Usually it's two stage, where license plates are run going northbound, and those cars are stopped going south an hour or two later. It goes from 3 lanes each way, to one, then back to 3, and they make full use of the funnel. Sometimes they just block 50 or so cars and walk a dog by them. Some stories you'll hear from people that have been living there for 20+ years are just surreal, might as well be an action movie.

(not being defensive, because I see where you're coming from and I agree to a point) I won't shave my beard or cover my tattoos for anyone. I actually looked pretty normal in hill country, a lift kit and 35 inch mud tires I would have blended in perfectly. It was random luck on their part. I just happened to be the poor shmuck who was broken down on the 101, that makes me an easy target just because I'm obviously not going anywhere. And particularly, if what I think is the case, the local tow trucks get a cut of the money, an extremely easy target. I'm lucky i wasn't killed, as more "mainstream" people have been. Oddly, my body was never searched, I was never patted down or cuffed. God knows if they'd have found my Gerber 16 in 1, then I'd have been an armed criminal.

The jack compartment is just habit. Any time I have to carry large amounts of cash for anything( and yes, I get weird looks buying cars when I go pop the trunk or unscrew a panel), I go for an out of the way, often unnoticed spot. Even if the car is stolen somehow like at a gas station or food stop, there's a chance the money could be recovered.

There are rumors in that area about a radar gun looking thing that detects cash. I never looked into it, just assumed it was paranoia personally, but seeing some of the xray vans and stuff that have been in NYC lately, it wouldn't entirely surprise me.

Ashyukun paranoia of cash sniffing dogs, and to make it smaller. 10 grand, even in hundreds, is rather bulky, but it compresses to a very small size. I also bury money for a rainy day or emergency. Call me old fashioned, but having a quick safety net can be a life saver in an emergency

Don't have near enough time at the moment to type out all my thoughts on this subject, but this kinda stuff pisses me off BIG TIME.

revrico wrote: There are rumors in that area about a radar gun looking thing that detects cash. I never looked into it, just assumed it was paranoia personally, but seeing some of the xray vans and stuff that have been in NYC lately, it wouldn't entirely surprise me.

There's a basis to the rumor, and it does have some truth to it. How well it would work on a vehicle driving by is another matter. Here's an article on it with enough details to make it understandable. https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21328576-100-metal-detector-knows-how-much-cash-is-in-your-wallet/

Most folk get popped by profiling though. Sweating and shaking and generally acting terrified at a border stop for example. Or driving 52 in a 55, with everyone else doing 70. As well those that are just recognized travelers.

Have to confess, I forgot about shrinking down the bills. Myself, I tend to break down the bundles and stash them in multiple areas. Kid was fascinated by this on our road trip last week. I kept pulling out money from all around the car and myself. Only once did I have a large wad of it in my wallet, and I was not happy with myself for having done that (kinda bad area).

The people doing this are just people, people of any sort that try to take what's mine, are gonna have a bad time.

sesto elemento wrote: The people doing this are just people, people of any sort that try to take what's mine, are gonna have a bad time.

Glad to see there are others who not only feel like I do, but are concerned just the same. I would love to have the knowledge/where with all to do something about it! Anyway, I had an odd encounter with a local boro cop while driving through my neighborhood. Long story short, he claimed I "rolled through a stop sign" and decided to run my plates. Then I was pulled over for my plates showing up "dead" in there system. Turned out DMV still hadn't process my plate transfer yet. I had all the proper paperwork so there wasn't anything he could do. Anyway while being stopped he asked if "he could look around". I said yes but your not coming inside the van. Don't know why, but it just didn't feel right. Anyway he walked around the outside and then went back to his car. A few minutes later came back and informed me "that I better keep my paperwork handy as I was going to be stopped a lot"... I said ok and then left. After that I was supper irritated, so I started to do some research. Then came across all the info about Civil Asset forfeiture, bad cops, etc... Anyway I found a few videos on youtube that were very interesting and would have been helpful. There listed below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4nQ_mFJV4I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxVuBHMKSuU

There are a bunch of others provided by the same groups. From that point on I have used a dashcam, and downloaded an app on my phone called babuser. Bambuser lets you stream directly to the internet. So if you have an encounter go VERY wrong and whoever takes your phone and dash cam, you still have the ability to have everything safely recorded, and maybe more... If the bad guys don't realize your phone is still streaming that is! Since getting pulled over, I have been much more concerned with CAF and illegal searches. Most everyone on here buys lots of used cars. Who's to say who did what in those cars in the last few hundred thousand miles... Someone elses mistake, dropped whatever, could be found by "the good guys", and your stuck with dealing with it. Anyway, be safe and happy wrenching!
Paul

In reply to paulmpetrun:

That app seems like a good idea When you stream the video how does anyone know where to find it? Does it send an alert to a friend or relative so they know to look for it?

In reply to Wall-e: You can log on to bambuser and set up the account as private or public. If private only you can view on there website. Not sure if it can/will auto send an alert or not. May have that feature, will have to look. I figured it was the best/safest bet to be able to prove what happened if the dashcam and cell phone mysteriously was broken or lost etc...

Does this constant video streaming eat up a huge amount of cellular data?

As for the youtube links, I clicked onto the first and the series of videos from that Attorney are very good. I have watched them before.
As an interesting side note, I once saw that Attorney playing a courtroom Attorney on some show like a Law and Order episode.

And the beat goes on...

"The Inspector General reports the DEA seized $4.15 billion in cash since 2007, accounting for 80 percent of all Justice Department cash seizures. Those figures do not include other property, such as cars and electronics, which are favorite targets for seizure by law enforcement... $3.2 billion of those seizures were never connected to any criminal charges."

"When seizure and administrative forfeitures do not ultimately advance an investigation or prosecution, law enforcement creates the appearance, and risks the reality, that it is more interested in seizing and forfeiting cash than advancing an investigation or prosecution," the Inspector General warned.

http://reason.com/blog/2017/03/29/the-dea-seized-4-billion-from-people-sin

God, I was looking for this thread last summer when some news came out and was swiftly buried.

Prepaid debit cards are fair game

This link specifically applies in Oklahoma, but has been seen in Tennessee, Kentucky, Missouri, and other states as well.

No charges, no crime, but because a prepaid debit card is "suspicious" it's fair game.

Nevermind that you're poor with bad credit like the majority of people who use these things are. As someone who still used a prepaid card at the time because I need to work on my budgeting and had no credit, it really struck a chord personally.

RevRico wrote: God, I was looking for this thread last summer when some news came out and was swiftly buried. Prepaid debit cards are fair game This link specifically applies in Oklahoma, but has been seen in Tennessee, Kentucky, Missouri, and other states as well.

Public assistance is on prepaid debit cards, in many cases.

As a Canadian who travels to the US every two weeks, I find this report disgusting and worrisome. I got pulled over in Iowa last summer for tinted windows and I didn't get a ticket but he did take a good look at my trailer contents.

Truth be told, my biggest paranoia is encountering one of those officers. Being a visible minority with a last name that definitely sounds like it belongs to someone of my skin color doesn't help. .

In D.C. you could/can have tint but the Nash Bridges can make you roll down your Windows. Least that's what an old friend on the force told me a decade ago. Now with legal pot I can't drive more than a few blocks without my car filling up with skunk from pedestrians toking. Can't imagine how that flies if you get pulled over by a K-9 unit.

KyAllroad wrote: In reply to revrico: So you (self proclaimed "biker looking" dude) are travelling along a well known drug corridor with 10 grand stashed in the back of your SUV. You cross paths with a pair of dirty cops (obviously, since there is a 0.0000% chance that your money went anywhere near an evidence room) and the result is a virtual certainty. I'm not saying you were in the wrong at all, but unfortunately you painted that target on your own back. Do you think the outcome would have been different if you hadn't had a rolling paper, the money was in the center console, and you looked a bit more "mainstream"? Again, I'm not saying you were in the wrong, but when cops see the same criminal thing 99 times in a row they don't expect the 100th to be innocent. They should, but we all understand human nature.

Have you ever heard of the concept of "innocent until proven guilty?" That is ostensibly the law here, hence the anger and frustration voiced by innocent citizens on this matter.

Who do you sue for false advertising about that "Serve and Protect" jazz painted on the door?

NEVER consent to a search, ever. If you have tinted windows, roll down both the front windows if you get pulled over. It is a crime to lie to a LEO. They are trained to lie to you.

Story Time!

When I got my driver's license I was given the talk by my uncle about being pulled over and interacting with police while being a black male. To me it was a big "ooh whatever" moment at the time. But, being 28 now and having this infatuation with luxo-barges have gotten me to reflect on the talk. I've been pulled over and asked, "who car is this" before license and registration plenty of times.

One time, I got pulled over (was never told why) while driving said uncle new Mercedes, go figure ay . I was 19 and we were driving all his cars to his new house. He let me drive it because it was the slowest (the rest being a brand new 997 and modded fox bodies). The cop was immediately up my ass as if I was a car thief asking me questions I really couldn't answer fast enough. He got my license, military ID, and my uncles registration and immediately called for back up. By then I was E36 M3ting myself because this was the first time I've been pulled over. He asked me to get out the car which I did. Sat me his patrol car and searched the car. I told them to call my uncle and that he's an attorney. One officer who was the backup was pretty chill gave me my phone (yeah they took it) and told me to call him. When I called, my uncle told me "dont say anything. I'm on my way". He showed up in less than 10mins. And asked the cops why his car is on the side of the road. They talked for a few minutes and let me go. I was so relieved I was sure I was going to jail. Funny thing is, thinking back on it now. The area we were in, Falls Church Virginia, is full of young kids driving highend cars. The average teenager drove a newish 3 series or e class. I know because I knew people from there who drove hummers and Porsche boxsters in highschool. I don't like to be that guy to pull the race card BUT I was the only kid who wasn't white, asian, or indian driving a nice car that day in that neighborhood.

Then, there's the time I got stopped while going for a run in my neighborhood after dark. Something I always do as well as many of my neighbors. It's southern California after all! Cop drove past me then turned around and shined a big ass light in my face and told me to stop.

Cop: where you going

Me: for a run

Cop: this late? Hmmm

Me: well it's only 8 and this is a really nice and safe neighborhood

Cop: exactly. Where do you live?

Me: About half mile yup this hill on Ryder Way.

Cop: really? Who you live with?

Me: my wife, kid, and dog. Why?

Him: that's it huh? Do you have some ID?

Me: yeah i do. Can I reach for my ID in my left arm strap now?

Cop: go ahead get it.

I handed him my drivers license .

Cop: it says Virginia what you doing way out here.

Me: I live here. Being active duty military I can keep my license in my home state of record

Cop: where's your military ID?

Me: at home, my reflective running shorts don't have pockets that's why I have this arm strap with my phone and ID in it.

Cop: I see let me run your information for warrants don't move.

He gets in his car and sits there for it seems like 10 min. Comes back.

Cop: nothing came up it seems

Me: i know, why did you stop me though?

Cop: I just thought it seemed out of place seeing you out running at this hour.

Me: Sir it's 8pm and 75 degrees out. Two different runners just ran by us twice just now. Am I free to go?

Cop: Yeah have a nice night.

This whole time that damn spot light stayed in my face. And cop had this shiny happy person look and sarcastic inflection in his voice. I can see if I was running with a tv in my hands!

I have plenty of stories like this unfortunately. Luckily, as some of my co-workers would say, I don't act black because I'm "a good black guy with a job and can speak well". Love hearing that.

Flame suit on. Know too many cops to be hating on them. What I can never understand where I live is that even the lowliest city council members are treated with fore lock tugging cap in hand obsequious courtesy whilst at the same time citizens bitch about crap they created that cops have to enforce.

In reply to yupididit: I know it's not really the same experience, but it can go both ways. I've been hassled, questioned & asked to produce ID by the 5-0 directly in front of my house..... Because"someone" said I was suspicious.......For being a clean cut white boy with a shiny eurocar in a down scale black neighborhood.

Both times it was a new to this township young white cop. They don't like it when I tell them I've been here since before they could spell police, I have no outstanding tickets or warrants, and show them my PBA courtesy card; I have several close family members that are high ranking state LEOs. I guess my white privilege does let me get away with that, not much else though.

As an unrelated rant, why does a 70% African American town only have 2 black cops? And why do most of the cops they do have look like skinheads? .......And we wonder why relationships between minority communities and the law are so poor.

They can only hire qualified applicants Andy.