In reply to Steve_Jones :
Words have meanings, including "single incident." I don't think any reasonable person would describe a series of attacks where each victim was unaware of any attack happening until the killer got around to them as a mass attack of any kind. From each victim's perspective, it was a single incident. It's the same reason that Son of Sam and the Beltway sniper aren't considered mass shooters.
Ok guys, stop arguing about the semantics of knife murders.
Start a real argument. Define assault weapon.
In reply to GameboyRMH :
Keep twisting, but it's right under the definition of mass stabbings as an example of one, right along with others you use as examples OF mass stabbings.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_stabbing
You just look foolish now trying to explain why you're not wrong. It's why I can't take anything you say seriously.
bobzilla said:Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:Didn't we already do this one? If I recall, both the title and the responses are virtually identical. I'm keeping my distance because I want to like you as a car guy, not dislike you because of your position on a topic like this.
Plenty dislike me for lots of reasons. Might as well add to the list.
Sorry for being unclear. The "you" I was referring to was the big you, i.e. everyone. I have no beef with you.
We should make killing innocent people illegal.
ToManyProjects said:We should make killing innocent people illegal.
It's already illegal and it's always been immoral too. No one actually cares to address that though which is why we always blame the objects used to kill not the actual evil people doing the killing.
This thread like most here that are not about cars is political theatre. Enjoy the show.
In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :
You'll be back. You can't possibly leave anything this juicy alone.
In reply to Appleseed :
Yep, it gets boring spending all that time under the bridge.
Noddaz said:Ok guys, stop arguing about the semantics of knife murders.
Start a real argument. Define assault weapon.
A word made up by the gun control proponents to make certain rifles sound scary.
In reply to Toyman! :
If i had a stick with poop on the end and i hit you with it, then that poop stick would indeed be an "assault weapon". Ban poop sticks. Oh better, make it illegal to assault anyone with anything. Ban crime.
(pops in to see how this thread ballooned to 4 pages already)
Yep. Mmmm-hmmm.
(quietly closes door and slowly backs away)
Back to the topic at hand: Do you think pharmaceuticals contribute to the increase in mass shootings?
Since that can of gas has been clearly thrown into the fire, here are my anecdotes on why I think they have some effect:
1: My father started taking a sleep aid because his restless leg syndrome would wake him up throughout the night. Within a week, he started having suicidal thoughts. Immediately stopped taking the medication and within a day or 2 those went away. Called the doctor and the response was "yeah, that's bad...good thing you stopped taking them"
2: A gentleman I worked with for a few months took his own life within 2 weeks of starting a new medication (anti-depressant, anti-anxiety, I really don't know). He was a wonderful guy, great family, always happy and outgoing, but there was a noticeable change in the week leading up to his death.
Given the circumstances of #2, one could argue that if the medications were to treat depression, perhaps they didn't catch on quickly enough. Maybe they were a cause, contributing factor, or bandaid that couldn't help quickly enough... Regardless, I do think that prescriptions and their side effects should be a part of the whole discussion on increased gun violence (especially suicide).
In reply to jmabarone :
I think that is more of an issue with the general public thinking that medical personnel are infallible and have their best interest at heart.
They are people just like everyone else. Fallible, lazy, and frequently have less than noble intentions driven by things such as greed.
Your best medical advocate is yourself. You are the only person with skin in the game.
In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :
its OK, I am a big boy. you can dislike me if you want.
In reply to jmabarone :
In reply to Toyman! :
Oh they do. I used Welbrutrin once and it made me homicidal, and other students I was with had personality changes they couldn't stand on it (it's not an "anger", it's more like an extreme purposefulness) meanwhile two of my friends swear by it for their ADHD because it keeps them off SSRIs and stimulants. My best friend is a changed person after Prozac, they literally just feel better and have more energy in every way imaginable. All medications are different and their affects on people are all unique.
It does directly tie into the mental health crisis- I can tell you from the front lines, that the American medical system for mental health is a joke and any alteration would be called "Socialist" because the only way it's gonna improve is through more federalization and interstate cooperation (all states have their own EMTALA rules and regs about mental health, what's permissable, what's considered a suicidal ideation, ect. Details matter). However what we're seeing from research finally occurring, is that a lot of the mass shootings are more akin to a "Suicide by cop" mentality, final cry type of E36 M3; improving mental health is absolutely needed, but to treat the mass shooting I feel you need to address people's nihilism.
I was on an antidepressant (forget which one) that made me incredibly angry at the dumbest stuff. Road rage, dropped my wrench and lost my mind in a string of naughty words, constantly frustrated. I would venture to guess that medications have a large impact on violence... gun or otherwise.
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:ToManyProjects said:We should make killing innocent people illegal.
It's already illegal and it's always been immoral too. ...
.....
If the "What" is illegal without caveat, the "How" and "Why" seem irrelevant.
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
Unfortunately, the pat answer to almost any problem is a pill. It's not entirely the doctors' fault. People expect doctors to have all the answers and a magic pill to solve all problems. Guess what. The side effects are frequently worse than the problem they are trying to solve.
Do a Google search for SSRI murders. Or SSRI suicide.
In reply to Toyman! :
IMO those prescriptions should only be authorized by a psychiatrist after therapy sessions. That's how I went through it in the early 2010's. Took a few tries with an emphasis to inform friends/loved ones of what was going on to help notice any differences and if I felt wrong to stop, and call her immediately. HAd to do this a couple times as my body adjusts to medicines and does whatever the hell it wants after a time anyway and it's always the same. inform, watch, be patient and cautious. For many of us its the difference between surviving until we die and living.
Sober individuals don't drive drunk.
Healthy individuals don't commit mass shootings/murder/violence.
The conversation always centers around the gun because we, as a nation, steadfastly refuse to address the preventative measure of contributing to a healthy populace. The food we eat, the drugs we take, the media we consume, the work ethic we espouse... The countries that don't have mass shootings also have better approaches to a healthy populace, in general, and that's before we even get to for profit medicine and discussions over who deserves care.
In conclusion, a healthy populace would reduce profits so that is untenable. Confiscating guns would lead to a lot of violence so that is untenable. So, what do?
In reply to bobzilla :
Some of them are bad enough that they should only be administered in a clinical setting with observation until stabilized.
Doctors are not gods. They frequently have no clue what they are doing. Strap on a tool belt, grab a ladder, and walk around a hospital. At that point you are furniture and the medical staff don't even see you. Not much in this world will disabuse your faith in the medical profession more than listening to elevator discussions between medical staff.
They really are no better than the guy that services your car.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:I was on an antidepressant (forget which one) that made me incredibly angry at the dumbest stuff. Road rage, dropped my wrench and lost my mind in a string of naughty words, constantly frustrated. I would venture to guess that medications have a large impact on violence... gun or otherwise.
That is odd, because antidepressants really lowered my anxiety and anger. Made a significant difference. I can't say they helped with depression, but I'm guessing I didn't have clinical depression. Being put on antidepressants was the doctors answer to me saying I could not focus at work. I went through several before I ended up on one that seems to work and doesn't make me nauseous or make my hands shake.
ddavidv said:(pops in to see how this thread ballooned to 4 pages already)
Yep. Mmmm-hmmm.
(quietly closes door and slowly backs away)
That is a quite reasonable move.
Let's not ignore another inconvenient item, the majority of the reported "mass shootings" are gang/drug related and in most cases being perpetrated by repeat offenders that have benefited from the catch and release programs.
Toyman! said:In reply to bobzilla :
Doctors are not gods. They frequently have no clue what they are doing.
Ha ha, hoo boy.
In reply to bobzilla :
Let's not ignore another inconvenient item, the majority of the reported "mass shootings" are gang/drug related and in most cases being perpetrated by repeat offenders that have benefited from the catch and release programs.
You're gonna have to prove that.
This topic is locked. No further posts are being accepted.
