any one with experience with dual fuel heat pumps?

so Mrs. Dizzle and I are about to put in an offer on a house out on some land. the house is on propane and the big thing i worry about is the heating bill in the winter months. I have been thinking about maybe getting a dual fuel heat pump if we get the house. does anybody have first hand experience with these? would this be the most cost effective way to keep the house warm through the winter? another option would be 2 or 3 electric heaters though out the house, but with a 3 year old running around the house hot things in the middle of rooms seems like a bad idea.

and to give you the idea of the house its a ~1700 square manufactured house, newer windows, not sure about how well insulated.

anyone? crickets

I am interested as well...

Well your dual fuel is still going to be propane. I'm not sure it will save you money in the long run. When we were replacing our heat pumps, a few years ago, I tried to talk to my HVAC man about getting a natural gas backup system. He didn't want to talk about it.

Our heat pump isn't exactly dual fuel. It uses electricity until temps drop to the point where electricity isn't very efficient, then natural gas is used. It works well. Not cheap but the town I live in has absurdly high utility rates (google electracities).

In reply to M2Pilot:

I thought that is what dual fuel is.

In reply to spitfirebill:

The term dual fuel doesn't normally include electricity. But would indicate that the system can run on: Gasoline and Kerosene or maybe natural gas and propane.

The electric with a limited use fuel side would be called a electic/fuel multistage system. And these can also be dual fuel, so the electric side plus a fuel side that uses either propane or natural gas.

Of course these are terms in my industrial circle.

In reply to edizzle89:

Not certain about your weather during the winter. But it may get too cold in the winter for a heat pump to help. It would take a home layout and more info to make a better guess if the heat pump can support the whole house or if it will fight the existing system and cause you trouble with humidity and uneven heating.

I have one, but its natural gas and electricity. The A/C unit does the electric part through some kind of magic. I almost never use the electric to heat though since gas is so cheap here. Like M2Pilot, it only uses the electricity down to a certain temp. Mine is somewhere just above freezing.

I have a co-worker that put a really fancy wood burner in his house that would otherwise use propane. He says it only pays off if you cut and split your own wood and enjoy doing that. If you're doing the wood thing though you also need a nice chainsaw, a log splitter, a truck and lots of free time in spring and summer to be collecting the wood.

I've seen wood add on furnaces at Menards. They basically duct right into your main blower and can do wood pellets, corn or smaller chopped wood. I would probably go that route so that you can spread the heat through the house better and really only use it when you want to mess with it.

Another popular thing in these parts are woodburning boiler outbuildings. This is pretty cool if you have the space: http://www.crownroyalstoves.com/outdoor-furnaces

this is the description of the dual fuel heat pumps that I am considering:

Even when it feels cold outside, there is heat in the air, which the heat pump extracts and literally pumps it inside of your home. When the temperature outside drops below an economic balance point where it becomes more efficient to heat with gas, oil, or propane, the system switches to your furnace. Without a fossil fuel heat source, the heating system would use expensive electric resistance heat when the outside temperature dropped below the heat pump’s physical balance point.

so like you guys have said, when it drops below 30-35* outside the heat pump becomes ineffective and the propane would take over. the house is in Brown county in south central Indiana, so our winters get pretty cold so I am just looking into any options that would make our utilities cheaper though the cold months.

And the listing online says it has propane heat but the disclosure i read though yesterday said electric heat? so im working on figuring out which one it actually has right now, and we should find out tonight if they excepted our offer.

When I lived in CT I was seriously considering one of these setups. There was no natural gas and electricity was very expensive. Most homes are still heated with fuel oil, which was $4-5/gallon at the time. People were spending $3-6K per year on fuel oil to heat their homes. The idea was that the Heat pump makes electric very affordable(haha) in the shoulder season and you use Propane for the days when the weather is too cold for the heat pump to work. The side benefit is A/C.

The house I owned, at the time, had electric baseboard and was $500/month in electric during the winter with the pellet stove cranked full 24/7. The pellet stove was nice, but a total maintenance pain. Not so much compared to wood, but I don't know if I'd use one again.

In reply to edizzle89:

You don't want the electric resistance ones.. When that "emergency" heat light comes on... your meter spins like a top.

In reply to spitfirebill:

Well, I reckon that's correct. Just wanted to be clear, I'm sorta HVAC illiterate.

I had a water sourced heat pump in a house I owned years ago. House was custom built & upfront costs for HVAC was more than for conventional heat pump. It worked very well & was cheap to run. I'd do it again if I could.

Fueled by Caffeine wrote: In reply to edizzle89: You don't want the electric resistance ones.. When that "emergency" heat light comes on... your meter spins like a top.

Good point, that's a big reason I went with dual fuel.

In reply to edizzle89:

In theory a multi stage heat pump with forced air distribution can help you control your home climate and may reduce bills. I would worry about the payback. Putting in a $2000 system may not save you enough year to year to be worth it.

If you have one long axis, as in more rectangle than square, single story home then maybe it would be better to try to zone the house to be supported by the new system in the space you want the guarantee of warmth and humidity control then keep the doors closed between there and the other part of the house where you allow the existing house system to control.

Other ideas would be electric radiant floor heating in the bathrooms and bedrooms.

If it has a septic tank and you ever have to replace it then you could install a geothermal path for a heat pump using the same contractor to dig both.

Also with the price of Natural Gas soooo low the utilities don't see any point rolling in the cost of the install into your monthly rates, (too risky if you move or otherwise stop paying) they want it all up front or just say no.

Heck if you have lots of sun exposure on your roof go electric generating solar panels. The technology has come far and there may be TONS of rebates/tax breaks/etc from state and federal. Even some utilities will give you a discount on your electrical if you use their company to install and control the panels.

I do remember that IN was big on wind power industry as a state that held many of the US based manufactures. Maybe rebates for a mini tower on your property.

Whatever you do, don't sell your property rights for fracking. Please don't.

Advan046 wrote: In reply to spitfirebill: The term dual fuel doesn't normally include electricity. But would indicate that the system can run on: Gasoline and Kerosene or maybe natural gas and propane. The electric with a limited use fuel side would be called a electic/fuel multistage system. And these can also be dual fuel, so the electric side plus a fuel side that uses either propane or natural gas. Of course these are terms in my industrial circle.

Gotcha. I can dig it. I am familiar with dual fuel boilers using propane, nat gas, fuel oil and even coal. Never thought of electrical as not a "fuel".

well from what ive heard back from the realtor it is a heat pump with the propane back up for when its really cold, so thats a relief for me. i may still look into a couple solar panels as the house is on a small hill in an open area that would get alot of sun thoughout the day

heard back last night that they had a few offers on the house but we really like the house and land so we came back with a counter that is our top dollar of what we are willing to pay for it. we should know tonight if we get it or not.

Also anyone know where i can get a 30x30 metal building built for cheap in south central Indiana? That will be the first thing done if we get the house.

Buy your propane in whatever is the off season.