Anyone know a real estate attorney?

My wife and I are about to buy a condo in Vero Beach FL.  HOA doesn't want dogs over 50lbs and mine is nearly twice that.  However, she is a certified (and totally legit) ESA.  From my understanding they cannot decline a support animal.  The issue is that they are saying the letter from my therapist (again totally legit) isn't specific enough.  They want to know the specific issues I have, how long it will last, why I "need" (their quotation) the dog, etc...

While I understand their skepticism, it's not fake.  On top of that, I believe it to be against HIPA laws to ask for those types details.  Anyone know a real estate attorney?

No suggestions on attorneys, but it is my understanding landlords cannot ask you for those specifics on ESAs.

Margie

Aim 100% for local lawyer who will be familiar with the local courts. Hopefully there is someone here that can give a recommendation that fits. Above that, just avoid HOAs. I know that's not often possible now, but I just have to throw it in there because berkeley the man.

According to This Link the letter does need to state specifically why you need the ESA. ESA are slightly different from recognized service animals as far as what they can and can't ask. 
 

Seeing as an HOA can make your life miserable, I'd think starting off this way wouldn't be worth the hassle of buying this specific condo, but that's me. 

In reply to Steve_Jones :

Thanks Steve!  I hate HOAs, at the same time I really don't plan to have any dealings with them once this is done.  We don't want a single family home and every condo near the beach is HOA so...

While I personally would never live in an HOA that had any jurisdiction beyond maintenance of a park, I am also something of an HOA apologist... I get it, and why you'd want one. 
 

But this sounds like one that I would avoid. You're lawyering up before you buy? Pass. 

Agree with MTN. If you already have to push the HOA before you even set foot inside, that isn't something that I'd like to pursue.

Let's back up a little.  I'm not lawyering up, I've expressed my opinion on lawyers before.  I'm just looking for someone who has a better grasp on the laws around ESA dogs and HOAs and can provide input.  If my thoughts are wrong, so be it.  

Honestly this HOA has been easy to deal with up to this point.  I do understand their skepticism and viewpoint, and also think they are wrong.  Almost all condos we saw in the area have similar thoughts on dogs.  If she was a small dog it would be a non factor.  The only condo we saw without the dog restriction was sketchy. 

I'm usually a "fighter" but in this case I have no interest in it.  Just want to get settled in and live my life.

This condo is precisely what we want so I'm not going to walk away just on this hurdle.

Personally, I'd give the reason why for the esa but anything beyond that is hipaa related.

Just typing in emotional support animal got this blurb from the AKC...

Basically what I read is if you have a honest medical professional prescription for an esa, you are exempt. What I do read tho is while your therapist says you need one, there isn't a definitive yes to having one. Hope this clears the mud a bit?

One of my good friends is a lawyer that does this stuff.  I'll send the link his way and see if he wants to weigh in with a "I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer" comment

wow, an hoa being corrupt, haven't heard this one before.

Simply put, you tell them its a certified emotional support animal.  And thats it.  You don't need violate your privacy to prove that to them.

SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) said:

Thanks Steve!  I hate HOAs, at the same time I really don't plan to have any dealings with them once this is done.  

Also on a pedantic note, I don't think asking someone for heath-related information about themselves constitutes a violation of HIPAA.  Your medical records have to be protected from disclosure without your consent by law, so if they call up your certified therapist or whomever and start asking questions, that provider can't give them any information about you unless you have provided consent.  And if you give them PHI, they have a legal obligation to protect that information from disclosure.  But while asking you what medical condition you have may be a violation of some other Florida statue surrounding ESA, I am somewhat certain that it has nothing to do with HIPAA.

While I'm waiting on my friend, I did want to point out that a lot of people misunderstand HIPAA laws.  They dont protect anything and everything for everyone.

Basically your healthcare information is protected amongst healthcare providers, insurance, and other related entities.  Anyone outside of that is not touched by HIPAA.

And I may have that incorrect or slightly skewed, but I doubt that you being requested to share this information is a violation of HIPAA.  Not sure if that helps or hinders your decision making, but I want to point it out so you can look into it yourself

Mr_Asa said:

While I'm waiting on my friend, I did want to point out that a lot of people misunderstand HIPAA laws.  They dont protect anything and everything for everyone.

Basically your healthcare information is protected amongst healthcare providers, insurance, and other related entities.  Anyone outside of that is not touched by HIPAA.

And I may have that incorrect or slightly skewed, but I doubt that you being requested to share this information is a violation of HIPAA.  Not sure if that helps or hinders your decision making, but I want to point it out so you can look into it yourself

Unrelated to topic:  That's the way I've understood it as well.  When we did our first responder training at work, I suggested those with underlying health conditions voluntarily provide HR a form with conditions, medications, relevant info, etc. so that we, as first responders, could know how to treat someone in the event of a medical incident.  The response "oh, that's a major HIPAA violation, but they could tell their coworker if they are on a new medication or have a condition."  How is that any different since it is voluntary?  

OP:  HOAs can be a necessary evil.  Good luck with this.  Sounds like there is enough info going on in this thread to counter the HOA's request.  

camopaint0707 said:

Simply put, you tell them its a certified emotional support animal.  And thats it.  You don't need violate your privacy to prove that to them.

That is not correct since there is no such thing as a "certified ESA". You need a letter from a therapist stating you need a ESA and why you need it. That's not unreasonable to me. 

Mr_Asa said:

While I'm waiting on my friend, I did want to point out that a lot of people misunderstand HIPAA laws.  They dont protect anything and everything for everyone.

Basically your healthcare information is protected amongst healthcare providers, insurance, and other related entities.  Anyone outside of that is not touched by HIPAA.

And I may have that incorrect or slightly skewed, but I doubt that you being requested to share this information is a violation of HIPAA.  Not sure if that helps or hinders your decision making, but I want to point it out so you can look into it yourself

I'm going to disagree because in asking they are making a case to discriminate, which is against the law. To be so specific makes the envelope to fight so tight you can't win. Which will or can lead to an ADA violation. IMO.

In reply to Ranger50 :

Service animals are protected under the ADA. ESA animals are not recognized under the ADA so there can not be a violation. 

Mr_Asa said:

One of my good friends is a lawyer that does this stuff.  I'll send the link his way and see if he wants to weigh in with a "I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer" comment

Short response between paying clients, but "the HOA can ask for certain information. Try this link for more info.

https://www.hud.gov/sites/dfiles/PA/documents/HUDAsstAnimalNC1-28-2020.pdf "

Ranger50 said:

Mr_Asa said:

While I'm waiting on my friend, I did want to point out that a lot of people misunderstand HIPAA laws.  They dont protect anything and everything for everyone.

Basically your healthcare information is protected amongst healthcare providers, insurance, and other related entities.  Anyone outside of that is not touched by HIPAA.

And I may have that incorrect or slightly skewed, but I doubt that you being requested to share this information is a violation of HIPAA.  Not sure if that helps or hinders your decision making, but I want to point it out so you can look into it yourself

I'm going to disagree because in asking they are making a case to discriminate, which is against the law. To be so specific makes the envelope to fight so tight you can't win. Which will or can lead to an ADA violation. IMO.

I feel something got missed here.  I was primarily talking about who/what HIPAA laws apply to, and whether a private entity asking is a HIPAA violation.  An ADA violation is a completely different animal, so I dont know what there is to disagree with?

FL beachfront- you're gonna have to have an HOA. You've found what you want. 
 

Now you've got to figure out how to be friends with your neighbors.  Both the HOA, AND the people next door.

We manage short term rental properties. The abuse of "ESA" and absolute bullE36 M3 we have to put up with is ridiculous. 90% of it is flat out lies.  We've had thousands of dollars of damage from alleged "ESA" dogs whose owners don't seem to know how to control their animals. I understand this is not your situation, but I also understand why it matters to the property managers. 
 

Then consider the neighbors. They bought in that building because they didn't want big dogs. They are always gonna have issues.  Why should elderly homeowners have to worry about their safety with a large dog?
 

This has nothing to do with HIPPA, but it has a lot to do with everyone's happiness and quality of life. 
 

Have a conversation with the HOA face to face. Bring the dog. Act nice. Forget lawyers and emails. 
 

If they approve, perhaps have your dog wear a service animal vest whenever outside?  (Just to make the neighbors feel good).

If they don't approve, bow out of the contract gracefully. There is lots of beachfront property in FL.

Also, while having the conversation with the HOA, ask them (nicely) if they have the capability to protect your private health information, and if they are willing to take that responsibility. (Don't mention HIPPA)

Thanks everyone!  To answer a few questions, I do have a letter from the therapist prescribing an ESA.  I would swear on my mother's grave it's not bullE36 M3, I've been through a lot and the dog is a big deal for me.  

I totally agree with SV reX that I want to play nice in this scenario.  My dog is a black lab and is the friendliest thing you'll ever meet.  I plan to introduce her to the neighbor and hope they like her.  Thankfully it's a very small complex and we are tucked in the back in a corner unit.