1) What would a driver gain by not being tracked? Does the Union rely on GPS data to substantiate complaints and levy punishment?
2) Is the antenna manufacturer willing to investigate? ...For research.
1) What would a driver gain by not being tracked? Does the Union rely on GPS data to substantiate complaints and levy punishment?
2) Is the antenna manufacturer willing to investigate? ...For research.
There are a few reasons they wouldn’t want to be tracked. The way we’ve operated for pretty much ever is that you had a schedule and there would be a few line dispatchers posted on the route. Ideally everyone would pass them on time and the route would function as intended. If you arrived late they would give you an adjustment, perhaps turning around short of the terminal or putting you customers on another bus and sending directly to a point down the line where you should be. If nothing could be done or you still ended up late at the end of the day you’d get a late slip and paid overtime. It happens to everyone occasionally but it happens more to some. By having the gps data we can identify whose moving in service but delayed for whatever reason and who thinks they’re invisible and sitting somewhere running up the clock. You also have a few that like to run early. If you do this you can catch the bus infront of You, not pick anyone up and get to the terminal early and have nice long breaks to yourself. Then the customers have to wait longer for his follower to come, that bus then gets overcrowded and further behind, causing large delays to service. With the tracking we can see this and have you wait to be back on time and if it’s a regular issue hand out discipline. Having the buses location in real time allows the dispatcher to adjust for service problems by knowing where there buses are and moving them to best serve the customers instead of the old way of trying to reach them by radio and asking or waiting until the bus arrives at there location.
So are the GPS receivers loosing acquisition of the satellites so they don't know where they are or are they not broadcasting that location back to dispatch? Do they have any on board memory you could check?
When a bus disappears for more than 15 minutes declare it stolen and call the PD.
But seriously, this is interesting. I can't wait to hear what you guys do and what happens.
Interesting insights Wally.
I have ridden a bus every day for 30 months, from North suburb of Atlanta into the city (also making a change to the train). I could see the intermediate checks being VERY helpful on the route I ride.. because it's a "fairly reliable E36 M3 show" pretty often.
Good luck figuring it out.
I'm not at all tech savvy, so I could be way off base here. If you think drivers are using GPS jammers, couldn't you check by turning on the navigator on your phone and then getting close to the suspected drivers and seeing if your phone goes whacky?
I do like the idea of casually mentioning in a meeting that the fcc is going to be checking things out. "They're making a pretty big deal out of this, I guess they put people in prison for messing up their GPS system." And see if the system miraculously starts working.
gearheadmb said:I'm not at all tech savvy, so I could be way off base here. If you think drivers are using GPS jammers, couldn't you check by turning on the navigator on your phone and then getting close to the suspected drivers and seeing if your phone goes whacky?
Yes.
Wish I'd seen this thread earlier. As you said this system is probably using a mix of GPS and cell tower triangulation since GPS doesn't work well between tall buildings. If these drivers are dropping off the map, they must be using a combined GPS/cell jammer or foiling a common antenna pod for both systems.
You could catch bus drivers with jammers by putting undercover riders with common cell phones on the bus with them. An application like SatStat for Android could show them the GPS satellites and cell towers they're connected to. If they suddenly lose all connectivity to one or both from having a strong signal, that's a good indication that a jammer is being used. If they don't and the bus still disappears, that's more likely caused by antenna foiling or some kind of malfunction.
Edit: It's also possible that this system could be using wifi poisitioning service as yet another backup system. But as others have said there are combined GPS+cell+wifi+BT jammers available on the black market.
For a lower tech possibility, is there any way the driver could have covered the GPS antenna with a metal bucket or something similar?
Where is this thing located on the bus? Could they just pull the fuse going to it? Unplug the antenna?
I dealt with this in a former life. The drivers were covering the antenna with tinfoil. No longer represents the company.
Fueled by Caffeine said:I dealt with this in a former life. The drivers were covering the antenna with tinfoil. No longer represents the company.
it would look pretty obvious to see tin foil on the antenna ,
and if like most antennas it is located in the middle of the roof how does he get up there to put it on , and at the end of his shift take it off ,
It will be interesting to see what it turns out to be.....
Can you switch buses out of common offenders? Or switch their routes? See if the problem stays with the bus or the driver?
if you find an answer to what is going on Wally, please keep us informed.
I’d haul in all your drivers for a big meeting. Then remind them about the safety needs for knowing their position and location. Then generally remind them that jamming gps signals is a federal crime. https://www.gps.gov/spectrum/jamming/
if union rep freaks. Remind him that it’s a safety thing.
If you treat everyone the same and let them know you’re looking at it and tampering with company safety equipment is against company rules. The offenders should clear themselves up shortly.
Everybody keeps talking about the FCC taking this seriously...The same people who aren't even concerned about rogue cell towers mysteriously popping up around the white house.
Put a transit cop on the “suspect” bus. When it disappears off the grip call his cell immediately and have the driver frisked. Make one good example and i’ll Bet the rest learn real quick.
And not all us Feds are bad. We’re just working stiffs like the rest of you.
I am highly intrigued ... keep us updated.
Why not contact Homeland security instead of the FCC?
I would expect Homeland Security to be interested in public transportation vanishing from tracking.
If it's not the full shift that the bus vanishes, then there is the conspiracy theory interpretation and the non-conspiracy interpretation.
The conspiracy theory would be that someone is using your busses to test their jammer prior to using it for more nefarious purposes, or the busses are just in the wrong place at the wrong time and caught up in a broader jamming effort by someone. An alternate theory could be someone is actively blocking to avoid being tracked and using public trans to be sure they aren’t followed. In this case the drivers are just victims of bad timing if they have the same route/ time each day they work.
The non-conspiracy theory is that the drivers are doing the blocking, and avoiding monitoring by the home office.
In the non-conspiracy version, just a memo/meeting notifying the drivers that homeland security will be contacted about the issue may be enough to get them to stop.
I favor the non-conspiracy version, and thing the risk of getting caught by the FCC or HS may be enough to put an end to it.
We passed along what we’ve seen over the last few months so now we’re waiting for the GPS people to look into it. From what I’ve observed over the past month it looks to be related to certain drivers rather than the buses and having watched them work it doesn’t look like any physical tampering. Nothing inside is accessible and no one has climbed up on a roof to cover the antennas. The next step will likely be some sort of notice once our training dept and legal people decide on wording. Right now it’s just a hunch a few of us have so until we hear from the tech people we can’t really go shaking anyone down looking for anything. There’s a lot of data collected that I can’t access so I would imagine the tech people will be able to review it and figure out if we are looking in the right direction or not.
In reply to No Time :
I’m definitely going with the non conspiracy version as it seems to follow people to different routes/shifts rather than the same places and different drivers.
l love when E36 M3birds get caught being E36 M3birds.
I think 'stacking' is the term used here for buses following nose to tail way out of time sequence. I made the mistake two years ago by taking the bus for the first time in almost a decade as I had a battery to pick up. A ten minute drive either way took an hour and forty minutes approx. Shoulda took a zipcar. 
I saw some mention of the NFL above....I knew the Patriots were involved somehow! 
Just an FYI not all routing systems are cellular data based. In fact, some phone GPS units are good enough that if you set and save your route prior to losing signal, the phone will still navigate without it.
That being said, the transmitting of information back to home base is obviously cell data, so either the GPS is going dead or the cellular connection is losing signal.
In reply to nutherjrfan :
This oversimplifies things a bit but it explains why buses naturally want to bunch up.
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