If I were to be a single issue voter my issue would be religion, or more importantly keeping as much of it out of my government as possible. The O succeeds.
Despite the Rep parties "No really, we are fiscally conservative. We promise" stance what they offer more than anything is faith based legislation and I will fight that tooth and nail.
curtis73 wrote: We keep holding on to it like a bad marriage just because its "patriotic."
This place was founded by wealthy white slave owners looking to protect their wealth from the english crown by applying just enough of ancient greek philosophy to make all men think they were equal except women and non-whites and poor people who could be "represented" by someone who knew what was good for them.
It was an 18th century recipe for success. We think it is awesome because that is what they told us in those public schools Roosevelt funded to create little patriots. There are not lot of indigenous americans or old timers left to set us straight anymore. What did Orwell say? "It only takes a few generations"
I think Obama has done some good things but his economic policy hasn't been brilliant (to understate things) and I don't like the health care bill.
I won't vote for Romney because his economic policy doesn't seem that different from Obama and I don't like his stance on social issues. I don't like Gingrich's stance on a lot of issues but I need to research him so more. I will probably vote 3rd party but if I didn't and one of those two were running I would probably vote Obama.
Grizz wrote: In reply to dankspeed: Don't be ridiculous. Calling black folk black folk is exactly the same as calling white folk white folk. 0 got something like 97% of the black vote, and I seriously doubt the majority of them had any other reason than his color. And as far as his biracialness, seems to me the only people who forgot were the ones who wanted his ass elected. Any time someone spoke against him they were called racist because 0 was black, not because he was biracial, throw in the media referring to the BoyKing as the first black preznint and not the first biracial one and it's pretty obvious who ignored his cracker momma.
I just thinks its ignorant to think black people only see skin color and don't focus or vote based on issues. Ill give you that some did but I just don't feel that's the case.
In reply to Curmudgeon: Fair enough. I didn't consider that when I posted. Still think its BS to assume all blacks voted for obama based on race. Make macain black and Obama 100% white and I'd imagine majority of blacks would still have voted Obama.
fast_eddie_72 wrote:poopshovel wrote: He said absolutely jack squat aside from, effectively, "You just gotta keep hopin! And help me get re-elected, so we can get the change a'goin!"A look at recent history doesn't bode well for candidates who say much more than that. Al Gore had a *lot* to say, but nobody wanted him to be President because he was "boring". Well we got someone who wasn't boring! Ye ha! Ron Paul has a lot to say, a lot of which I agree with and a lot I don't. But nobody wants to vote for him either. We'll get Romney, because they think he can win, or Newt, because he... got really, really, really mad at a reporter when he had the nerve to ask about his personal life. Where was *that* Newt when he was crucifying Clinton? Or was that whole thing just an attack by the "liberal media" as well? I could stomach Romney, but if somehow Newt is in the White House I'll have to give solid thought to moving to Canada. Not because he's such and ass hole (he is) but because enough Americans were taken in by his nonsense to elect him.
I am not thrilled to vote for Newt. I am, I feel, obligated to vote for the guy who has the best chance of defeating Obama. I do not think Romney is "that guy." And as I said before, I would PAY to watch Newt slaughter Obama in a debate. I wouldn't be surprised if after a bunch of "Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhs" Obama started crying.
This thread seems (IMO) populated by posters (on both sides) that haven't lived long enough, paid attention often enough, and are influenced too much by media.
For example, if media had vetted Obama with the same fervor, depth and skepticism as any of the "likely" Republican candidates, people MIGHT have been able to form a more rounded and honest view. Instead, we got a President who campaigned on vague, rhetorical platitudes and was rarely/never challenged as to what motivated him, what he stood for and what he was going to accomplish what he promised.
How many times has anyone heard him reference liberty and the pursuit of happiness in his speeches? Those are basic tenets of the US and are codified in the Constitution, a document written to define the limitations of a central government. The President seems to have little regard towards the intentions of those who drafted it and those who sacrificed to maintain it.
I didn't vote for Obama in '08 and I won't do so this year. I'm sorry, but the man doesn't see the exceptionalism rooted within our people and our history. He sees the exceptionalism in an ever-expanding government which has long been the root cause of too many of our core problems.
And to those who espouse the color of skin, please give it a rest. It may be a factor to extremist loons (on both sides) but the important issues are far deeper, more important and more expansive.
/rant
curtis73 wrote: Not to open a massive can of worms, but is it possible that Capitalism itself is no longer a good system for us? We keep holding on to it like a bad marriage just because its "patriotic."
i'd like to see us actually TRY real free-market driven capitalism before we say it isnt working.
dankspeed wrote: In reply to Curmudgeon: Fair enough. I didn't consider that when I posted. Still think its BS to assume all blacks voted for obama based on race. Make macain black and Obama 100% white and I'd imagine majority of blacks would still have voted Obama.
You think 97% of them would have?
Logically speaking, it doesn't really make sense. If equality truly existed in every way, and everyone truly ignored skin color, you really think that 97% of African Americans would have voted for Obama?
Or do you think it would have been closer to the 43% of the white vote that Obama got?
(McCain got 55% of the white vote.)
There's a disconnect somewhere... facts are facts.
WilberM3 wrote:curtis73 wrote: Not to open a massive can of worms, but is it possible that Capitalism itself is no longer a good system for us? We keep holding on to it like a bad marriage just because its "patriotic."i'd like to see us actually TRY real free-market driven capitalism before we say it isnt working.
+eleventy.
WilberM3 wrote: i'd like to see us actually TRY real free-market driven capitalism before we say it isnt working.
In a way, you have seen it. Capitalism grows and flourishes in a world where the only success is measured in wealth. To control it's destiny it acquires power. It buys favor of government. In inacts rules in it's own best interest and ignores problems and issues that do not help contribute to wealth. It fosters a culture measuring success only in terms of wealth as it seeks survival and more wealth. It does not feed the poor unless some economic driver makes it wise to feed them - like say an industrial revolution requires a healthy workforce. You don't invest in schools for everyone unless you are not able to find skills to match your needs.
It is great while it is between extremes but pretty awful when it is at either end of the pendulum swing. I happened to be born in the sweet spot. It only gets worse for me unless I live long enough for it to swing back or something huge kicks it in the ass.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: This place was founded by wealthy white slave owners looking to protect their wealth from the english crown by applying just enough of ancient greek philosophy to make all men think they were equal except women and non-whites and poor people who could be "represented" by someone who knew what was good for them. It was an 18th century recipe for success. We think it is awesome because that is what they told us in those public schools Roosevelt funded to create little patriots. There are not lot of indigenous americans or old timers left to set us straight anymore. What did Orwell say? "It only takes a few generations"
Very well said. It is reassuring to hear something other than "This country was founded by a bunch of sacred geniuses that knew better than anybody then and still do now."
GlennS wrote: Healthcare reform Wars seem to be ending the end of don't ask don't tell Reversed restrictions on stem cell research (berkeley YOU BUSH) Extended Bush Tax cuts to people making less than 250k a year keep in mind that for the second 2 years of his presidency a republican congress has had a strategy of "say no to everything" when it comes to Obama to keep him from getting anything done. I'm a white guy. I'm excited to vote for this guy. Way more excited then i would be about any of the Rep. candidates that's for sure.
Fair enough. I will give him kudos for having OBL found and killed...though I am with Ron Paul regarding the manner in which it occured. Regardless, good job. He's dead. Don't ask/Don't tell was bullE36 M3 and should've been gone a long time ago. Good job. Freeing up funding for stem cell research was a good thing too. The "Jesus told me this is how you should live" BS is a good part of the reason why I generally vote Libertarian rather than Republican.
Obamacare will undoubtedly be another miserable failure of a money pit just like social security, medicare/medicaid. Again, if you can't afford healthcare, you should be covered under medicare or medicaid, right? So why didn't we fix or eliminate medicare/medicaid rather than creating a new enormous government bureaucracy that will cost trillions of dollars?
The arbitrary $250k number is ridiculous, and has only served to make business owners like me terrified to expand my business (or "create jobs") for fear of punishment from the almighty "decider" of how much of MY money I should be allowed to keep.
I'm still on the fence regarding Iraq. While I don't think we should've been there in the first place, and I'm glad our men and women are coming home, I think we have effectively surrendered and accepted defeat, and I know multiple guys in the Army and Marines that are furious about it.
z31maniac wrote:fast_eddie_72 wrote:I'm talking about the media.poopshovel wrote: Aside from black folk, is anyone really still EXCITED to vote for this ass hat?z31maniac wrote: I don't know, D's seem to be the ones always bringin' up race. I'm not saying, I'm just saying......Uh.
Got it. Thanks Newt.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:dankspeed wrote: In reply to Curmudgeon: Fair enough. I didn't consider that when I posted. Still think its BS to assume all blacks voted for obama based on race. Make macain black and Obama 100% white and I'd imagine majority of blacks would still have voted Obama.You think 97% of them would have? Logically speaking, it doesn't really make sense. If equality truly existed in every way, and everyone truly ignored skin color, you really think that 97% of African Americans would have voted for Obama? Or do you think it would have been closer to the 43% of the white vote that Obama got? (McCain got 55% of the white vote.) There's a disconnect somewhere... facts are facts. I said majority not 97 % . What facts? Where did you get your numbers? Bet I can dig up numbers do dispute your numbers. Ill say it again I realize SOME black did vote based on race but not all 97%. I just feel some whites want to write off black voters as being dumb and not educated.
dankspeed wrote:92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:dankspeed wrote: In reply to Curmudgeon: Fair enough. I didn't consider that when I posted. Still think its BS to assume all blacks voted for obama based on race. Make macain black and Obama 100% white and I'd imagine majority of blacks would still have voted Obama.You think 97% of them would have? Logically speaking, it doesn't really make sense. If equality truly existed in every way, and everyone truly ignored skin color, you really think that 97% of African Americans would have voted for Obama? Or do you think it would have been closer to the 43% of the white vote that Obama got? (McCain got 55% of the white vote.) There's a disconnect somewhere... facts are facts. I said majority not 97 % . What facts? Where did you get your numbers? Bet I can dig up numbers do dispute your numbers. Ill say it again I realize SOME black did vote based on race but not all 97%. I just feel some whites want to write off black voters as being dumb and not educated.
Obama got 97% of the black vote.
That's a fact.
I'm not trying to write off anyone...
I'm just saying that if everything were as equal as is said.... he would have gotten 43% of the black vote like he did the white vote.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15297.html
Oops, sorry.. looks like that one shows 96%.
The only point is that there is NO logical explanation for the huge difference in percentages besides the one that nobody wants to hear.
I'm not pointing fingers. I didn't do my part. I didn't vote at all.
Yet... i still got called racist for not voting for Obama. Sense. This makes none.
Go ahead and dig up numbers to dispute my numbers... that's missing the point though.
Look... i'm not trying to dog on you or anything, and i'm certainly FAR from racist, i assure you.
Dankspeed said: I just thinks its ignorant to think black people only see skin color and don't focus or vote based on issues. Ill give you that some did but I just don't feel that's the case.
Dankspeed said: Fair enough. I didn't consider that when I posted. Still think its BS to assume all blacks voted for obama based on race. Make macain black and Obama 100% white and I'd imagine majority of blacks would still have voted Obama.
Nobody made blanket statements, this is all i've been replying to.
What issues did 96% of the black vote support obama on that only 43% of the white vote did?
Here's the thing.... if the majority would have still voted... that could mean only 51% instead of 96%. Doubtful that he would have won in that case.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: The only point is that there is NO logical explanation for the huge difference in percentages besides the one that nobody wants to hear.
I'm not sure I agree. Polls show Hispanics favor Obama over the current Republicans by an overwhelming margin. And back in 2004, Kerry got 88% of the black vote.
Minorities in general tend to vote for Democrats. I think it has more to do with issues other than race. Sure, Obama got a little higher percentage, but not anything that is out of line with history. What he did do is get more blacks to the polls. Kind of a "get out the vote" thing. Not really any different than W getting evangelicals out. When someone you identify with very strongly is running and looks to have a chance to win, it goes a long way to overcoming the feeling that your vote doesn't matter anyway.
I'm trying to contribute to a political thread without getting all bent out of shape and going on some rant. We'll see how it goes.
Fair enough. 
poopshovel wrote: I'm still on the fence regarding Iraq. While I don't think we should've been there in the first place, and I'm glad our men and women are coming home, I think we have effectively surrendered and accepted defeat, and I know multiple guys in the Army and Marines that are furious about it.
we had already set the ground work for this way back in April of '75 ...
GlennS wrote: Healthcare reform Wars seem to be ending the end of don't ask don't tell Reversed restrictions on stem cell research (berkeley YOU BUSH) Extended Bush Tax cuts to people making less than 250k a year keep in mind that for the second 2 years of his presidency a republican congress has had a strategy of "say no to everything" when it comes to Obama to keep him from getting anything done. I'm a white guy. I'm excited to vote for this guy. Way more excited then i would be about any of the Rep. candidates that's for sure.
Reformed for the worse or are higher prises and less freedom of choice appealing to you?
Wars ending on Bush's time table. Not including the two new wars in Africa.
Restriction on stem cells that didn't hamper research. And as it turns out Stem cell from embryos weren't all that great.
Extended the Bush tax cuts but also added new taxes on every with clever rejiggering of SS.
I'm glad reps said no to out of control spending and more regulations. Also the dems put up bills they knew wouldn't pass in a dishonest attempt to make the reps look bad for voting them down. And you fell for it.
You are excited to vote for an abject failure?
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:curtis73 wrote: We keep holding on to it like a bad marriage just because its "patriotic."This place was founded by wealthy white slave owners looking to protect their wealth from the english crown by applying just enough of ancient greek philosophy to make all men think they were equal except women and non-whites and poor people who could be "represented" by someone who knew what was good for them. It was an 18th century recipe for success. We think it is awesome because that is what they told us in those public schools Roosevelt funded to create little patriots. There are not lot of indigenous americans or old timers left to set us straight anymore. What did Orwell say? "It only takes a few generations"
People of colour could vote so long as they owned land like every other person who could vote.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Obama got 97% of the black vote. That's a fact. I'm not trying to write off anyone... I'm just saying that if everything were as equal as is said.... he would have gotten 43% of the black vote like he did the white vote. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15297.html Oops, sorry.. looks like that one shows 96%. The only point is that there is NO logical explanation for the huge difference in percentages besides the one that nobody wants to hear. I'm not pointing fingers. I didn't do my part. I didn't vote at all. Yet... i still got called racist for not voting for Obama. Sense. This makes none. Go ahead and dig up numbers to dispute my numbers... that's missing the point though.
That is scary. And yes, I saw fast_eddie_72's response, and it's still scary.
BTW, can anyone explain to me what difference it makes to the general, way-less-than-six-figure-making, average American who gets elected president? For serious... Knowing about politics for me is a bit like bragging about a your 800hp car: There's always someone faster (smarter).
I get the effect it could have, with laws that infringe upon whatever rights are appropriate. But what effects REALLY. Learn me politics.
fast_eddie_72 wrote:92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: The only point is that there is NO logical explanation for the huge difference in percentages besides the one that nobody wants to hear.I'm not sure I agree. Polls show Hispanics favor Obama over the current Republicans by an overwhelming margin. And back in 2004, Kerry got 88% of the black vote. Minorities in general tend to vote for Democrats. I think it has more to do with issues other than race. Sure, Obama got a little higher percentage, but not anything that is out of line with history. What he did do is get more blacks to the polls. Kind of a "get out the vote" thing. Not really any different than W getting evangelicals out. When someone you identify with very strongly is running and looks to have a chance to win, it goes a long way to overcoming the feeling that your vote doesn't matter anyway. I'm trying to contribute to a political thread without getting all bent out of shape and going on some rant. We'll see how it goes.
Much of what you posted (here) is true. But, Obama was elected primarily because of anti-Republican sentiments and his pandering to "moderates" who were looking for an alternative. His actions (and those of Congress) have proven to be major disappointments.
Minorities tend to side with Democrats because they perceive Republicans as the "side" that will take away what they have been given. Republicans, conservatives and Libertarians see opportunities to provide helping hands in lieu of giving hand-outs. So instead of rational and honest sharing of ideas that lead to compromise, we got demagoguery and stalemate.
Fast Eddie is right.
Change the tone of this discussion. Obama won because white people voted for him.
Historically, black people overwhelmingly vote democrat anyways, usually %90 or more. So the vote figure didn't overwhelmingly change just because Obama was running. So you can just drop the 'they stick together' tone some of these posts have...
This topic is locked. No further posts are being accepted.
