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Beer Baron
Beer Baron MegaDork
4/28/21 8:23 a.m.

Instead of taking over someone else's rant thread about hobbyists, let's move beer talk here.

Any questions or comments you have about beer, brewing, etc., go ahead and ask me.

I'll tell you why your favorite beer style both is simultaneously great and stupid. That beer style or trend you hate, I'll rant about how it's an uneducated bastardization of an awesome historical style that it bares no resemblance to. I'll give tips and advice on homebrewing. Any weird thoughts you've had about beer but think are probably silly, I'll tell you what's actually what.

(This started in anothre thread with me ranting about Hazy IPA. Long story short - I appreciate the move with New England style IPA towards big juicy fruity flavors with very restrained bitterness. I prefer that in an IPA. That is completely separate from what makes those beers hazy. I brew on nice equipment and am very knowledgeable about ingredients and process, so I make beers that tick all those same boxes, but end up very clear. I get frustrated by the haze craze, because I would have to wastefully mess up a beer and/or resort to gimmick to brew "a hazy".)

For those wondering my background - I homebrewed for less than a year before deciding to go pro. I went to a Certified Brewmaster program at an institute in Berlin, Germany. Came back and did an internship at the second oldest brewery in the U.S. Went on to work for several brewing companies including North Coast (for any Old Rasputin or Scrimshaw fans). I'm now the brewmaster at Endeavor Brewing and Spirits in Columbus, OH. I'm partial to creating beers drawing on direct experience of drinking regional specialty styles (e.g. Kolsch, Gose, Hefeweizen, ESB, Belgian specialty and Trappist ales) in their native habitats - either myself or one of my partners are the brewery. I'm guided by a philosophy that - The Best Beers are ones that Reward attention but do not Demand it.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
4/28/21 8:33 a.m.

So sessions beers yay or nay?

Beer Baron
Beer Baron MegaDork
4/28/21 8:41 a.m.
93EXCivic said:

So sessions beers yay or nay?

Generally, I love session beers. I like beer. Drinking is a regular part of my job. It's nice to be able to have multiple beers and still function well.

In house, one of our favorite beers we did a while back was an Ordinary Bitter - rich, balanced, flavorful 3.5% abv (or 3.2% by *weight*, so a classic "three-two beer"), served on nitro. All of us at the brewery miss that one, but it's not something that's popular in the wider scene here. British expats or visitors flipped for it because it was as good as any they'd ever had, and *not* something you find in the U.S.

Sesion IPA... depends. I'm not a fan of most of those because they frequently don't dial back the hops in proportion to the rest of the body of the beer, so they can get wildly out of balance.

As a general rule, there's not really any broad style of beer that I think is good or bad. It's all about good or bad versions of a style. But usually the more trendy and hip a style is, the worse the proportion of crap versions to good versions get. Except for pumpkin beers. berkeley pumpkin in beer. Pumpkin is perhaps the stupidest ingredient to put in beer.

Stampie
Stampie GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/28/21 8:42 a.m.

First question is why drink beer when there's perfectly good whiskey available?

Second question is why do people need chocolate or fruits in their beers?

914Driver
914Driver MegaDork
4/28/21 8:42 a.m.

Beer:  buy or just a renter?

Brett_Murphy
Brett_Murphy GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/28/21 8:57 a.m.

Can you please make crappy IPAs less popular on a *national* scale?




 

mtn
mtn MegaDork
4/28/21 8:58 a.m.
  1. Is there a widely available NA or 3/2 beer available on the market that will scratch that itch? I frequently find myself with a Select 55 or Miller 64, only because of the low alcohol content. They're not good - they're not much of anything, it is basically beer flavored carbonated water - but I like drinking beer and the alcohol is the limiting factor for me.
  2. Why are the Budweiser products I drink in St. Louis so much better than the Budweiser I drink in Chicago? Is it really that fresh, and does that really matter that much? Or is it partly placebo?
  3. What is one beer that people would be surprised you like?
  4. What is one beer that you wish everybody could try?
iansane
iansane GRM+ Memberand Reader
4/28/21 9:00 a.m.

IPA vs pale ale; just marketing?

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
4/28/21 9:00 a.m.

I'll bite!

 

Why is it that it seems the trend is to make the most bitter beer imaginable when it comes to pale ales?

 

I spent some time in California, it seems their idea of flavor is to pack as much, punch you in the face, differing flavors into 1 glass.  It's almost unsinkable in my opinion.

 

Second and 3rd question...  is g uinness beer?  Why is it soooo different than other stouts (even on nitro).

 

 

I'll admit I drink a lot of g uinness.  I love other stouts as well.  I am also one of those people that likes flavored beers (chocolate and peanut butter stouts and porters are my favorite).

Brett_Murphy
Brett_Murphy GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/28/21 9:02 a.m.
Stampie said:

First question is why drink beer when there's perfectly good whiskey available?

Second question is why do people need chocolate or fruits in their beers?

1. Excellent beer can be made at home, from start to finish, in 4-6 weeks time. It takes a lot longer to make whiskey.

2. Why do people put toppings on their ice cream, too?
Chocolate: In my opinion, chocolate can add a bitterness to a dark beer that's different from hops. That bitterness can round out a flavor profile really well. It goes wrong when people try to make beer that doesn't taste like beer.
Fruits:  Talk to the Germans and Belgians about this. I think Germany is overdue for a war, so be careful

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 MegaDork
4/28/21 9:03 a.m.

If we consider a spectrum from hoppy to malty, I prefer beers on the malty side.  Even so, one needs a variety.  Some days we crave the hoppy, others the malty.  Still, I think my favorites are beers like Guinness Stout or Samuel Smith's Taddy Porter.

Although the microbrew movement has greatly increased the average price of beer, I'm a fan because as I have aged, I am definitely more in the quality vs. quantity camp.  Gone are the days of 99-cent six-packs of Ortlieb's (Joe's Beer),  I don't mind so much paying 10 dollars a six for decent brew.  It's honestly hard to imagine sucking down a twelve pack of the cheap swill you see racked up in the grocery store.  Bud Light?  I just don't get it, unless you're after a cheap drunk and like to pee.  Even so, you have the right to beer as you like in the land of the free.

EastCoastMojo (Forum Supporter)
EastCoastMojo (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand Mod Squad
4/28/21 9:25 a.m.

One of my favorite beers of all time is Creme Brulee Imperial Milk Stout from Southern Tier, but being a seasonal beer I can hardly ever find it. Is there anything similar that I should try?

Beer Baron
Beer Baron MegaDork
4/28/21 9:34 a.m.

I know these questions are sarcastic, but I'll answer them seriously. 

Stampie said:

First question is why drink beer when there's perfectly good whiskey available?

As someone who both brews beer and distills whisk(e)y:

Because sometimes you want whisk(e)y and sometimes you want beer.

Because beer is a nice moderate strength to be able to enjoy with other activities. So you can keep drinking and control the level of buzz you get, and not have to have a glass of water in your other hand to avoid getting completely dehydrated.

Because beer has more complex aromatic compounds than any other straight alcoholic beverage (mixed drinks can be an exception). Whiskey is effectively made by starting with a very simplified beer, and then stripping out all of the flavors you don't want, then wood aging it. Beer is more complex.

There is more variety of beers and between beers than there is between whiskeys. There are more options for beers to please different tastes and different moods than there are whiskeys.

Along with that, beer pairs better with food than any other alcoholic beverage. You can find a beer to pair with effectively any meal.

Second question is why do people need chocolate or fruits in their beers?

Several answers to that...

When done properly, for the same reason that sometimes I like whisky neat, sometimes I want an old fashioned, sometimes I want a manhattan, and sometimes I want a berry smash. Sometimes it is nice to mix complementary flavors.

Frequently though, there's a trend in the craft beer scene that I really dislike of people constantly looking for "new" and "different" beer. I attribute a lot of this to Untappd, and people just wanting to check off how many "different" beers they've had.

It's a lot easier for brewers to take a base beer and dump flavors into it than it is to take the time and effort to research, design, and refine something wholly new from the ground up. It's a lot quicker and less likely to be a gross mistake.

Much the same way that it's easier to plug in a new effect pedal on a guitar or add a track with a new sample into protools than it is to learn to be a better musician.

golfduke
golfduke Dork
4/28/21 9:35 a.m.

I'm a brewmaster too!  But in New England, 90% of beer consumed is hazy, fruity, sour, artificially sweet, or a combination of all 4, so we make a lot of it.  It's a blessing and a curse being a brewer-  Endless creativity and possibilities abound... except you need to keep the lights on and cater to consumer demand.  

 

There's worse problems though. 

Beer Baron
Beer Baron MegaDork
4/28/21 9:35 a.m.
Brett_Murphy said:

Can you please make crappy IPAs less popular on a *national* scale?

I wish. Dear sweet baby jebus do I wish I could do that more than you do.

Grtechguy
Grtechguy MegaDork
4/28/21 9:37 a.m.

Teach me to make a Stout that tastes like an imperial, but can be session

Beer Baron
Beer Baron MegaDork
4/28/21 9:47 a.m.
mtn said:
  1. Is there a widely available NA or 3/2 beer available on the market that will scratch that itch? I frequently find myself with a Select 55 or Miller 64, only because of the low alcohol content. They're not good - they're not much of anything, it is basically beer flavored carbonated water - but I like drinking beer and the alcohol is the limiting factor for me.

Not my style of beer to really know about. I once made a great 3.2 beer that was fantastic. All of us at the bar loved it. Brits loved it. Beyond that, it didn't sell so well.

 

EDIT: Maybe Irish stouts? Beers like Guinness and Murphy's are generally around 4% - 4.2%. They are lower ABV than Bud Lite. In Ireland, they're even lower, like 3.8%. They actually up the abv for export.

  1. Why are the Budweiser products I drink in St. Louis so much better than the Budweiser I drink in Chicago? Is it really that fresh, and does that really matter that much? Or is it partly placebo?

I don't know? Possibly? Budweiser has a lot of breweries. I'm pretty certain your Bud in Chicago is coming from the brewery here in Columbus.

There is *some* variation brewery to brewery, but AB (Annheiseur Busch) holds the highest quality control standards of any brewing company... in the world. Probably only the top QA tasters and brewmasters at AB will be able to tell you the brewery to brewery difference.

Most likely, it's local pride and the downstream quality control - care taken by shippers, distributors, bars, and retailers. I'd guess it's probably AB taking the effort to go into the market and being sure other people are taking best possible care of the beer.

  1. What is one beer that people would be surprised you like?

I refer to Guinness as "my favorite lite beer".

I like the full American lagers, like Budweiser (but not Bud Lite). I think Coors Banquet is quite good.

On the flipside, I hate Stella. I think it is pretentious and overpriced for a far inferior product to the much maligned American lagers.

  1. What is one beer that you wish everybody could try?

That's... tough... hmm... Aha!

Deus. Deus is a Brut des Flandres. It is produced by Brouwerij Bosteels and is finished and bottle conditioned in a traditional Champagne cellar, in Champagne.

It is not an everyday beer. Far from it. But it is one of the most elegant and amazing beers ever. I think it would completely explode what most people envision beer can be. It is simultaneously huge and complex, but flawless and approachable. I've poured it for a girlfriend of my dad's who would hobnob VIPs at Indy with $300 bottles of Champagne. I poured her this $45 bottle (750ml champagne bottle) of beer and it floored her. She said it was the best Champagne she'd ever had and it was a beer.

Beer Baron
Beer Baron MegaDork
4/28/21 9:49 a.m.
iansane said:

IPA vs pale ale; just marketing?

Pretty much.

I swear, everything is an IPA now. Sierra Nevada Cellebration used to be a "holiday ale" now it's an "IPA".

Take the same hop-forward beer. Call it an IPA and it will sell about double.

Beer Baron
Beer Baron MegaDork
4/28/21 9:51 a.m.
EastCoastMojo (Forum Supporter) said:

One of my favorite beers of all time is Creme Brulee Imperial Milk Stout from Southern Tier, but being a seasonal beer I can hardly ever find it. Is there anything similar that I should try?

Sadly, this is one of those questions I can't answer. Those aren't my personal taste, so I don't go looking for them. What you can get will also be heavily dependent on your region.

Aaron_King
Aaron_King GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
4/28/21 10:04 a.m.

One of my favorites is doppelbock, Tröegenator is my go to.  I need to make some time to get back down to your place, we ahve moved out of downtown so I can't just swing by on my way home anymore.

Jpbrienp
Jpbrienp New Reader
4/28/21 10:06 a.m.

I laughed at "I'll rant about how it's an uneducated bastardization of an awesome historical style that it bares no resemblance to." 

Red Oak Brewery is on my way home and a decent place to hangout... My wive's uncle works there, I drink a lot of their beer. Their 1516 Heller Bock rates pretty high in my book as does their Black Oak Dopplebock.  Pretty sure they do their best to stick to traditional brews.... 

E_NinjA
E_NinjA New Reader
4/28/21 10:19 a.m.
EastCoastMojo (Forum Supporter) said:

One of my favorite beers of all time is Creme Brulee Imperial Milk Stout from Southern Tier, but being a seasonal beer I can hardly ever find it. Is there anything similar that I should try?

Give the Peanut Butter Milk Stout from Belching Beaver a try.

Jay_W
Jay_W SuperDork
4/28/21 10:20 a.m.

Ok, so I have read this with more than casual interest. I got to this statement by the OP.

"beer pairs better with food than any other alcoholic beverage."

And right there, is Truth. You sir have all the credibility today. 

So here's my slightly loaded question, what is it about a proper Scottish ale that makes it so distinctlively freaking awesome?  I mean I've brewed a few, and know what goes into them but the result is different enough from other good dark beers that I've always wonder what sets them apart. So far I've left that one at "who cares, it's delicious and goes with steak rly rly well"

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
4/28/21 10:25 a.m.
Beer Baron said:
93EXCivic said:

So sessions beers yay or nay?

Generally, I love session beers. I like beer. Drinking is a regular part of my job. It's nice to be able to have multiple beers and still function well.

In house, one of our favorite beers we did a while back was an Ordinary Bitter - rich, balanced, flavorful 3.5% abv (or 3.2% by *weight*, so a classic "three-two beer"), served on nitro. All of us at the brewery miss that one, but it's not something that's popular in the wider scene here. British expats or visitors flipped for it because it was as good as any they'd ever had, and *not* something you find in the U.S.

Sesion IPA... depends. I'm not a fan of most of those because they frequently don't dial back the hops in proportion to the rest of the body of the beer, so they can get wildly out of balance.

One of my local breweries makes a session IPA that I really like, Yellowhammer Beach Body. Not uber hoppy, 3.1% and 90 calories. That and Dogfish Head Seaquench personally are some of my favorites for post mountain bike summer beers. 

 

Why is every time I find a new favorite beer the local breweries never seem to make it again?

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
4/28/21 10:26 a.m.
Beer Baron said:
Brett_Murphy said:

Can you please make crappy IPAs less popular on a *national* scale?

I wish. Dear sweet baby jebus do I wish I could do that more than you do.

I really like sweet baby Jesus.  Good porter!

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