Ask Me Anything about Beer

dxman92 said:

What is one style beer you'd like to see more US breweries give a try?

Mostly, I want to see more breweries play with trying different classic styles and making them unadulturated. Do something that is actually new for them and take the time and effort to do it right.

My knee jerk is doing pilsner and taking time to get it right. Pilsner is probably the hardest style to execute properly. I also happen to love it. However, most small craft breweries are not set up to do a pilsner properly. They have equipment set up for British style procedures, not continental.

So... realistically, maybe Bitters.

MadScientistMatt said:

Bashing AB and other big mega-breweries is often rather trendy. Can you go into more detail about what these companies are doing right? That side doesn't get talked about very much.

A lot. They are doing a LOT right.

I personally do not bash AB or the other mega-breweries. Or at least... I don't from the perspective of their liquid. I'll only bash them from the perspective of marketing and business practices. Even then, Annheisseur Busch was a very different company when it was owned by the Busch family than it is now that it's a part of InBev.

American Adjunct Lager (though not necessarily American Lite Lager) is probably the hardest style to brew. There's not much to it, and so you can not hide any flaws. These breweries are also fantastically consistent. They have far higher quality control standards than any other brewing companies in the world. They also tend to invest in the knowledge of their staff, and are generally better employers who pay better and care more about health, safety, and wellness than most craft breweries. Generally the worst that can be said for being a grunt brewer for a big brewing company is that it's shift work, and the longer time workers will generally get their pick of better shifts.

They take brewing seriously.

Arguably the majority of small craft breweries do not take brewing seriously. They are careless and haphazard not just in brewing practices, but in health and safety also. Many breweries are notoriously unethical or exploitative employers with reputations for paying entry level workers minimum wage and churning and burning them because, "There's always someone else who wants to work for [hip brewing company]."

Edit: It's a bit like the beer equivalent of a midsize Japanese sedan. I'm a passionate car guy. I'm not going to get excited about a Camry. I'm going to get excited about a Miata and weigh the merits of the Camara/Mustang/Challenger and opine about muscle cars vs. momentum cars. But even though that Camry never elicits passion, if you take the time to appreciate it, it's a well made car.

My dad worked for AB in the 80's and with all of the stock that he owned from those few years, I can basically say that AB payed for my college and a not-insignificant portion of my parents retirement. I'm a fan of AB. I usually have Budweiser, Okocim, or Veltins in my fridge (the latter two are not AB products). And I love their tour, you can really see the QC measures taken. 

Questions:

Have you tried the Budweiser Nitro? I was fairly impressed with it, and it made me wish there were more nitros available that didn't cost an arm and a leg.

Second: What is the difference in a Black Ale, a Black Lager, a Schwarzbier, etc.? One of my favorite beers, and about the only craft beer that I buy, is a Widow Maker from Keweenaw Brewing Company. It says Black Ale on the can, but various websites and reviewers call it different styles from each other. 

mtn said:

Have you tried the Budweiser Nitro? I was fairly impressed with it, and it made me wish there were more nitros available that didn't cost an arm and a leg.

Nope.

Second: What is the difference in a Black Ale, a Black Lager, a Schwarzbier, etc.? One of my favorite beers, and about the only craft beer that I buy, is a Widow Maker from Keweenaw Brewing Company. It says Black Ale on the can, but various websites and reviewers call it different styles from each other. 

Black ale is fermented with an ale yeast. Black lager is fermented with a lager yeast. Schwarzbier is just German for "black beer" and is a black lager.

Generally what that means is... ales will tend to have bit more body and a have a bit stronger yeast character. Lagers will tend to be me crisp and have a more neutral yeast profile.

There's a bit of marketing/description implication and wiggle room. Like, a stout is arguably a black ale, but a "black ale" is probably not a stout, because you'd say so if it was. So you can assume it will be less roasty or more hop forward or something. A schwarzbier has a slightly more specific flavor profile range. So if you're calling something a "black lager"... well... maybe it has a different flavor profile. More likely you're just afraid your customers won't understand or have trouble pronouncing "schwarzbier", but that they will understand "black" and "lager", and be able to make some assumptions of what the two together mean.

So what makes a stout a stout? and what makes a porter a porter? 

What's the single best equipment upgrade for home brewers beyond the standard "kit" stuff?

I just started my first ever batch on Saturday, so now that it's bubbling away happily I'm fully invested. I used some bonus money this year to buy this Northern Brewer kit and thought everything was pretty solid quality, but I was slightly horrified by how much water it took to use the wort chiller and am already considering building a recirculating setup with an ice bath.

ultraclyde said:

So what makes a stout a stout? and what makes a porter a porter? 

It started as... marketing. The first stout was marketed as a "Stout Porter". So a porter... but stouter.

Finding and actual difference is tough and *really* subjective. In general, I'd say to expect a stout to a flavor profile that is more roasted. I expect it to have a certain amount of malt bitterness from husked roasted malt. (That likely requires an explanation that I am not prepared to give at this moment, and is best explained with actual malt samples.) A porter I expect to have a slightly more caramely or toasty profile.

cmcgregor (Forum Supporter) said:

What's the single best equipment upgrade for home brewers beyond the standard "kit" stuff?

Depends on how much money and space you're planning to dedicate to it.

If you've got a lot of money and space, I'd say a way to actually control and maintain fermentation temps.

For less money and space, a good wort chiller. Ideally a counter-flow wort cooler with an aeration stone.

And yes, wort chilling uses a LOT of water. In production brewing, facilities are always set up to recapture cooling water in your hot liquor tank so that it can be used for brewing or cleaning later. Even then, once that tank fills up... I once removed the most frequent packaging slowdown and saved the company dozens of wasted man-hours every week purely by adding an extra T and valve as a diversion on the recapture line for when the hot water tank filled up, so we wouldn't drop it below the necessary minimum temp to sanitize equipment.

Beer Baron said:

ultraclyde said:

So what makes a stout a stout? and what makes a porter a porter? 

It started as... marketing. The first stout was marketed as a "Stout Porter". So a porter... but stouter.

Finding and actual difference is tough and *really* subjective. In general, I'd say to expect a stout to a flavor profile that is more roasted. I expect it to have a certain amount of malt bitterness from husked roasted malt. (That likely requires an explanation that I am not prepared to give at this moment, and is best explained with actual malt samples.) A porter I expect to have a slightly more caramely or toasty profile.

That's good info because I never really got the difference. I just like dark beer basically

Beer Baron said:

thatsnowinnebago said:

In reply to Beer Baron :

Those stupid purity laws also ban delicious gose beers. 

Is gose pronounced like "go-zah" or "goes"?

"Go-zuh" or "Go-zeh".

Gose is grandfathered into the purity laws as a historical regional style. They are permitted to brew with added salt and corriander. However, all the other standards of the purity laws still apply. As a wheatbeer, the mash has to be at least 50% wheat.

Also... gose is the style I rant about most that the American version bares ZERO resemblance to the German version. German gose is very lightly tart and refreshing. It is almost lemonade like and super drinkable. People get really surprised when they try mine.

One of my classmates from brewing school did his internship at Bayerischer Bahnhof, *the* gosebraurei, in Leipzig. I got an opportunity to chat with the brewmaster there and pick his brain. Also get tips from him on, "If we weren't constrained by these purity laws, we'd just do [a much simpler souring procedure]."

Can you recommend any legit goses available here to try? I'd try yours but I'm pretty far away. 

Beer Baron said:

dxman92 said:

What is one style beer you'd like to see more US breweries give a try?

Mostly, I want to see more breweries play with trying different classic styles and making them unadulturated. Do something that is actually new for them and take the time and effort to do it right.

My knee jerk is doing pilsner and taking time to get it right. Pilsner is probably the hardest style to execute properly. I also happen to love it. However, most small craft breweries are not set up to do a pilsner properly. They have equipment set up for British style procedures, not continental.

So... realistically, maybe Bitters.

Interesting about the pilsners , I visited the Czech Republic a while back and a warm day with a really good Pilsner is just the best. But like a lot of beers it's not the same from a can. 
If I have tried many microbrewed pilsners and very few did I find really got it right. 
 

One semi local brewery makes a really fantastic bitter, and I would love to see more breweries take a swing at one. 

I really enjoy catching up on this thread while drinking a PBR.

I lived in the California bay area in the early nineties. There was craft beer everywhere. Always found it interesting since I grew up int the midwest wherever I went a six pack of PBR was twice what you would pay for almost anything else.

thatsnowinnebago said:

Can you recommend any legit goses available here to try? I'd try yours but I'm pretty far away. 

It's not too rare for a good bottle shop to carry Leipziger Gose, which is the real thing from Leipzig.

What are the pros and cons of cans vs bottles? I've noticed a lot more microbrews are coming in cans now.

MadScientistMatt said:

What are the pros and cons of cans vs bottles? I've noticed a lot more microbrews are coming in cans now.

For the consumer, not as big as breweries like to make them out to be. As long as the beer is not exposed to direct sunlight, both do their jobs well. There's some argument about oxygen level vs seal quality, but we're talking incremental differences if anything.

I think the only concern a consumer is likely to run into is that it's harder to check the fill level on cans.

The biggest differences are for the brewery, distribution, and retail.

Bottles - empty are less fragile to store/handle. Very easy to slap different labels on the same bottles, so a small brewery with multiple brands can just buy a bunch of the same bottles and label them as needed. Easier handling and filling on small equipment. Can potentially be reused if you're in Europe where they do that.

Cans - cheaper per unit, but usually you need to order more units. Now it's getting more common to slap contact labels on blank cans, which would have been considered tacky in the past. No need for carriers or cases. Much more space efficient for transport and for shelving at retail. Easier to recycle.

What causes beer to sometimes get a metallic taste?

Driven5 said:

What causes beer to sometimes get a metallic taste?

"Metallic" means something specific to me in terms of sensory analysis, that I'm not sure is what you're describing. For what *I* think of as "metallic"...

Specifically copper or brass (which is a copper alloy). It's not uncommon to use brass fittings in some components because it's cheap, but it leaches copper into the beer and gives it a metallic taste. This is most common in tapping components at bars - faucets, shanks (that bridge the faucet and line), and keg couplers often use chrome-plated brass. Over time, the chrome wears away, and you're left with brass. I've seen this happen even at regional chains with the money to have done things right.

The flavor threshold to taste metal is pretty high for most people. The first indication is usually loss of flavor (especially in hoppy beers). It's possible that you are more sensitive to metallic flavors than most people.

If you're talking about something more common than that, or that you get in other beers... I don't know. I'd have to have a beer at the same time as you to know what flavor you're describing as "metallic". Some possibilities:

Carbonic acid has a particular bite to it. It happens whenever you dissolve CO2 in water. It's the tang in any soda water. Or CO2 itself burns your sinuses.

There's some flavor I get in a lot of beers - particularly homebrew - that I find sharp and almost ozone-like, but I don't know what they heck it is.

Rinsing the mash during the lauter with too-hot water can result in astringcy. And if you roast the husk of barley, it results in malt bitterness - but that I more often describe as "chalky".

Beer Baron said:

Driven5 said:

What causes beer to sometimes get a metallic taste?

"Metallic" means something specific to me in terms of sensory analysis, that I'm not sure is what you're describing. For what *I* think of as "metallic"...

Metal. Specifically copper or brass (which is a copper alloy). It's not uncommon to use brass fittings in some components because it's cheap, but it leaches copper into the beer and gives it a metallic taste. This is most common in tapping components at bars - faucets, shanks (that bridge the faucet and line), and keg couplers often use chrome-plated brass. Over time, the chrome wears away, and you're left with brass.

What material fittings should be used?

mtn said:

What material fittings should be used?

Stainless steel.

And particular inert (usually synthetic) materials for lines, seals, gaskets, etc.

Aluminum can be okay in certain low-use applications, like the coils in a jockey box that will see only sporadic usage. (A jockey box is the mobile tapping equipment you see at beer fests - where the beer runs through a cooler packed with ice to chill the beer on the way to the faucet. They are very "good enough".)

In reply to Beer Baron :

It reminds me of putting a coin or aluminum foil in my mouth as a kid, but considerably less desirable now. It's an relatively uncommon occurrence that I haven't been able to track, and I'm trying to remember if I've gotten from tap and/or bottle beer too, but I do know I have experienced it with cans... Including the on most recently. So of course the first thought in that comes to mind when that happens is that it may be coming from the can itself, but considering that most cans are fine too I'm also guessing that's not it.

I did see something mention once that it could also be coming from the smell of the (freshly torn) opening of the can itself, which has me trying to remember if it has only happenes when drinking straight from a can or when poured into a glass as well. I guess I need to pay closer attention to the circumstances next time it happens. Thanks for giving me some things to help identify.

How do you feel about Jester King? I live near the brewery and all my beer nerd friends shame me because I only go once a year. From what I hear people fly in to drink there...is it really that big of a deal?

calteg said:

How do you feel about Jester King? I live near the brewery and all my beer nerd friends shame me because I only go once a year. From what I hear people fly in to drink there...is it really that big of a deal?

Not sure if I've had their beer. Certainly not enough to form a strong opinion.

I have *never* had a beer that has lived up to the hype surrounding it. Many incredibly hyped beers are very good, but never what they're hyped up to be. I've had some hype beers that are mediocre or bad.

Any beer people travel long distances and/or wait in long lines to try, is not going to be worth the hassle. I guarantee you'll be able to find something just as good or better that you *don't* need to play games for. I don't mean that it will be bad. Probably good. Just not equal to the hype.

...and I've had Westvleteren 12 - regularly hyped as *the* best beer in the world. It was absolutely fantastic, but not the best beer in the world. (St. Bernardus 12 is the same recipe and nearly identical, just not brewed *at* the monastery.) Closest to living up to the hype is some special reserve Cantillon that a buddy had because he's friends with the brewers there.

In reply to Driven5 :

Could be the outside of the cans. Manufacturers take great care with the lining on the inside of cans to prevent leaching aluminum, but there is no such need to treat the outsides.

Beer Baron said:

calteg said:

How do you feel about Jester King? I live near the brewery and all my beer nerd friends shame me because I only go once a year. From what I hear people fly in to drink there...is it really that big of a deal?

Not sure if I've had their beer. Certainly not enough to form a strong opinion.

I have *never* had a beer that has lived up to the hype surrounding it. Many incredibly hyped beers are very good, but never what they're hyped up to be. I've had some hype beers that are mediocre or bad.

Any beer people travel long distances and/or wait in long lines to try, is not going to be worth the hassle. I guarantee you'll be able to find something just as good or better that you *don't* need to play games for. I don't mean that it will be bad. Probably good. Just not equal to the hype.

...and I've had Westvleteren 12 - regularly hyped as *the* best beer in the world. It was absolutely fantastic, but not the best beer in the world. (St. Bernardus 12 is the same recipe and nearly identical, just not brewed *at* the monastery.) Closest to living up to the hype is some special reserve Cantillon that a buddy had because he's friends with the brewers there.

Somewhere around 15 years ago we used to drive from Macon, GA to Chattanooga, TN to buy beer. At the time there was almost no craft beer available in central Georgia, but you could get Stone Breweries, Fat tire, and a bunch of other stuff in TN. Around the same time 2 friends and I road tripped to outside St. Louis to retrieve a corvette on a trailer. We stopped at every beer store that caught our eye coming back and filled most of the bed and rear seat with beer we'd never seen before. 

These days? If I'm drinking beer I try to drink whatever's local to wherever I am at the time.