Big Wigs and Getting Icarused.

SkinnyG (Forum Supporter) said:

I would value the input of Koreans, or those intimately aware of the nuances of the culture, as your best source of input.

Oh trust me, I'm doing that as well. 

Knowing exactly what you are is pretty much a super power.

Most people go thru life looking thru a foggy lens of self delusion.

SkinnyG (Forum Supporter) said:

I think looking for advice from western society on how to survive an asian/eastern business culture is maybe not going to be that helpful.

Different cultures are different, but I don't think that really changes the value of being yourself and continuing habits that have brought success instead of second guessing them.

To me, the different culture is more going to be in changing the tone or formality of how you're presenting, not in *what* you're presenting.

:::Expanded clarification::: I'm using literature writing concepts. I think they apply 100% to this, but the terms themselves probably need some explanation. A major concept is writing or communicating in the appropriate register for your audience - the combination of formality, familiarity, use of jargon, etc. A formal research paper will have a different tone than the same information presented for a lay audience. I communicate logistics information differently to the warehouse workers of a distributor, vs. the sales lead at the distributor, vs. our bar manager, vs. my assistant in the brewery. But the information being presented remains (essentially) the same.

enjoy the ride.. make connections that interest you.. and just enjoy

In reply to DaewooOfDeath :

I am surrounded by mega successful people and more than a few social climbers. ( I'm probably one of the later since I come from a working middle class background and am living in a neighborhood filled with inherited wealth. Two houses south of me is the CFO of a Fortune 500 company. Across the street  is the son of a very successful contractor. Down the block is a extremely successful lawyer and a couple of judges plus a State Supreme Court justice.  I look out at homes worth 8 figures But right next to me is one of those social climbers.  Whereas the house on the opposite side is 4th generation serious money. 
     I don't pretend. I take pride in my working background.   Do what you're doing. Don't pretend or try to be better than you are.  You'll be respected for that. The ones laughed at and left out are the social climbers. 

In reply to DaewooOfDeath :

I think you've hit the nail on the proverbial head with the 'not a normal westerner' comment, and that is exactly what is meant by 'being yourself'. This can apply to words and appearance the same as it does actions.

When you demonstrate proficiency with the principle(s) that someone values, you'll earn their respect. When you do so in a way that is uniquely yours, you'll earn their admiration. Don't overthink it.

In this way, respect and admiration are both two way streets. If you're doing it right (IMHO), you will be surrounding yourself with people that respect and admire you, every bit as much as you respect and admire them.

I have just gotten a week long crash course in Korean business and it was painful. I salute you for your endurance.

SkinnyG (Forum Supporter) said:

I think looking for advice from western society on how to survive an asian/eastern business culture is maybe not going to be that helpful.

I would value the input of Koreans, or those intimately aware of the nuances of the culture, as your best source of input.

Deeply intuitive post.  Whole different ball of (icarus) wax over there.

In reply to Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) :

Hahaha, yeah, you are experiencing the joys of a high context culture. Us folks in the anglo-sphere are generally pretty low context, which means we don't expect the people around us to share that many experiences, secret handshakes or in group characteristics. So we explain ourselves more. High context cultures like Korea or Japan, they have A LOT of secret handshakes and knowing winks/nods. As such they explain basically nothing explicitly. It can feel like everyone but you is telepathic until you get used to it.

ultraclyde (Forum Supporter) said:

I've moved a lot higher than where I started too, but maybe not like you have.  Remember, a lot of the people you're around now probably did too. They're just people, don't be intimidated and don't treat them as better than you are. Relate to them as if they are just another person (because that's what they are). Listen more than you speak and learn what you can, but don't be afraid to be part of the conversation when you have something to contribute. Remember that people tend to assume everyone has the same experience and background that they do - unless you point out otherwise.  And don't be surprised if some of those high fliers are just trailer park kids like us. 

this this this.....did i say this????

I know a fellow who is the CEO of a very large construction company. Like, laying cables at the bottom of the ocean kind of big.

He started out digging ditches for that company.

Lots of people started at the bottom.

DaewooOfDeath said:

In reply to Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) :

It can feel like everyone but you is telepathic until you get used to it.

Add to the fact that everything is virtual and it's a hot mess.

This is a total humble brag but ...

The bigwig I was worried about turned out to be a really nice guy, super smart and to have a massive case of COVID-social-distancing-induced cabin fever. We've been swapping policy implementation ideas for the last couple weeks and he even offered to help me with my Korean grammar/spelling in a journal paper I'm working on. (I'm doing the same for the paper he's writing in English.)

I can't give you any pointers on the Nuances of living in Korea.  I did date a Korean girl in HS, but her family was not approving, so it did not last long.

As for people, remember A-list suits are just as varied as anybody else.  I have worked at a couple of casinos.  One the CEO would not be caught dead even going into the Employee Cafeteria to inspect it and the other I wound up having lunch with the CEO because I had the only empty table.

ShawnG said:

I have found the self-made folks to be more like the average Joe. It's the second generation money that gets the F-you attitude.

Second-generation money is absolutely where the attitude is found. Once it gets to 4th or 5th generation, letting everyone know how rich you are isn't a priority any more.  It's just not an issue.

I had the opposite upbringing. Large upper middle class family with a lot of overachievers, talented but never supported and slid down to a position of homelessness and bad decisions. Woke up one day realizing I had crapped away thousands of excellent opportunities and started to rebuild. It has taken me thirty years to rebuild twenty years of bad decisions and I have finally gotten to the "I'm almost comfortable with my actions" point in life. 

That all out in the open I have proven myself as someone who can hang out with Curtis (FUUUUUCK Joe) and as someone who can look our corporate CEO in the eye and tell him that he made an egregious error and suggest an alternative that will resolve the situation, save face and make the company money, because even though I am not traditionally or educationally entitled to a higher position I have shown my team my worth and they respond with respect. Of course it sounds like I am doing this coarsely but it is the opposite. The one thing I learned through making mistakes is how I would need to be approached to change my tact that led me to the failure. 

Regardless of where you start in life, you control the vector. You should never concern yourself with elevation or speed unless you are very certain there are mountains in your path.

In reply to QuasiMofo (John Brown) :

I've found the "you are the average of the five people you hang around with" rule to be very true.

Things started getting much better for me when I fired a whole bunch of my loser friends, accepted responsibility for the dumb E36 M3 I was doing and got my act together.

My loser friends are still losers, sadly. They don't seem inclined to change either. Everything is someone elses fault, partly mine because I pay more taxes than they do now so I must be a part of the problem.