Biometric Database of All Adult Americans Hidden in Immigration Reform

Biometric Database of All Adult Americans Hidden in Immigration Reform -- Wired

Gee, I wonder why they can't give it a bill of it's own if both sides think it's such a terrific idea. I'm glad they can get together across the isle on making Orwell look like a prophet.

And you don't think something like this already exists?

Not legally.

What are you worried about? They'll just encode that picture into a number, tattoo that on your right wrist (or forehead of you don' t have a right wrist) and that will be your ID. The number matching your face is proof that you are you. You know, to stop the terrorists and for buying stuff.

And they criticize The Book.

I dunno, when I got my residence permit for Denmark I had to give biometric information, they took my fingerprints and picture. That information is connected with my personal identification number. It is not like the US is breaking any new ground with this

I love how they sneak stuff into bills that are outrageous just on the off chance that no one reads the whole bill and notices this crap. How is this even legal?

Also, IBL. I see this thread going south really quickly, but I agree with GPS and Dr. Hess.

You mean like a drivers license and a Social security card / number? Who here does not have those?

“The most worrying aspect is that this creates a principle of permission basically to do certain activities and it can be used to restrict activities,” he said. “It’s like a national ID system without the card.”

Permission and restriction? I am pretty sure that is pretty ubiquitous already. What am I missing here. Are they implying some basic rights like speech would somehow fall into this somehow? I can't see that.

One of the primary issues with immigration is the lack of documentation, I see that as critical. Citizens are already documented. This is a bit creepy, but what right is it violating? Freedom of not having the government know what I look like?

fritzsch wrote: I dunno, when I got my residence permit for Denmark I had to give biometric information, they took my fingerprints and picture. That information is connected with my personal identification number. It is not like the US is breaking any new ground with this

This goes quite a bit further than that.

Just because you CAN doesn't mean you should do it. This is the beginning of the basis for every way out there sci-fi book I've ever read about totalitarian governments and how they control the population.

The problem with a national biometrics database is the overlap. Multiple people will match on a given sample. Even the standard DNA test (it is not thorough) is a "one in a million" match which means 300 people in this country could match on the test.

In reply to dculberson:

That is among the scariest bits to me (though it does jump to details while the big picture is plenty alarming).

When a bureaucracy thinks it has all the information, and doesn't have a good system for conflicts or exceptions, bad things happen, and people are left without a means of redress.

The scenario in my head is of matching the data for someone in trouble, being detained, and as a detainee not having access to a means of proving that you are someone else. A problem which prevents itself from being solved.

ransom wrote: ....The scenario in my head is of matching the data for someone in trouble, being detained, and as a detainee not having access to a means of proving that you are someone else. A problem which prevents itself from being solved.

I think you are describing eye witness accounts pretty well here. They are notoriously inaccurate and are given way to much weight. Even with flaws, I would suspect a system like this would be far more accurate.

I can see what you are saying though.

In reply to aircooled:

That makes sense, but simultaneously holds the seed of my primary fear: "That old system was messed up, but this new stuff is much more accurate." Which in turn makes the system less likely to provide avenues for correcting a false positive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Mayfield

TL;DR version: The FBI picked up some poor schmuck from Oregon because they thought his fingerprints matched some evidence from the Madrid Bombing. They even kept him after the Spanish Police told them that the prints weren't a match. They finally let him go when the Spaniards caught the actual bomber.

To this day the FBI claims that fingerprint evidence is 100% accurate—as in, never wrong—despite the lack of any scientific study to back that up and this well-publicized failure.

ransom wrote: In reply to aircooled: That makes sense, but simultaneously holds the seed of my primary fear: "That old system was messed up, but this new stuff is **much** more accurate." Which in turn makes the system less likely to provide avenues for correcting a false positive.

What you guys are talking about applies very well to field administered breathalyzer tests for drunk driving. Just google houston BAT van for the saga of them here.

Is anyone taking "credit" for writing this part of the bill? I would really like to know who authored it...

Just as an aside, I assume you guys know that a database like this already exists and has entries for every legal immigrant and IIRC the visa sponsors also if it's a family-based visa?

I wasn't expecting that the gubmint would delete the entries for both my wife and I if/when I become a US citizen.

Now, am I in favour of this? Obviously not, but it's not like something like this doesn't exist already.

ransom wrote: That is among the scariest bits to me (though it does jump to details while the big picture is plenty alarming).

Very true!!

Don't mince words Jim... tell us what you really think....

Oh well...looks like it time for some pie...

I gets the giggles when I see people complaining about something like this, then see a bunch of people walking around with their oh so individual tattoos which work for quick ID every bit as well as 'Not Sure's wrist tats in Idiocracy.

banana cream, bitches. do you speak it?

AngryCorvair wrote: banana cream, bitches. do you speak it?

For some reason, this struck me as way funnier when you remove the comma.

I want a banana cream bitch.

In reply to Curmudgeon:

Agreed for some considerations. But you'll note my most immediate fear isn't being identified, it's being misidentified. Clearly I need more and weirder tattoos.

I can't find the "N Sperlo is watching you" picture.

oldeskewltoy wrote: Go hug your guns, put them in your mouth and blow yourself away and let the rest of us go on...

Nice to know that you think the 47 million of us who own guns should be dead. You've been around here a little while (long enough to be a dork) so you are probably aware that we already have a thread for whining about gun control. Try not to flounder this one.

I'd rather hear about pecan pie (NOT BANNANA CREAM!!!!)

in this thread than guns