Brexit

joey48442 wrote:

WOW Really Paul? wrote:

PHeller wrote: The idea just hit me, what if instead of an electoral college putting weight in poorly populated areas to balance highly populated area, we weighted age groups stronger based on number of years of life expectancy. Not a dramatic weight, but just enough that in 50/50 counts, it would bump up the count with younger voters. Imagine the irony of comments like "for last 50 years the young vote has messed up our country."

Do you honestly want the "We have no idea what is going on" millennial crowd to have that much power right now? Great Scott, I'm one of the early members of their ranks, and think that would be the worst idea in the history of mankind.....although I could probably manipulate them into establishing a dictatorship to launch my diabolical dream of world domination.

I just have to say my main take away from this whole thread is that I had no idea you were younger than me. I always pictured you in your 60's, lol.

3 weeks off of 30.... Perks of having to work for everything I suppose, but I've always been referred to as an "old soul"

WOW Really Paul? wrote:

joey48442 wrote:

WOW Really Paul? wrote:

PHeller wrote: The idea just hit me, what if instead of an electoral college putting weight in poorly populated areas to balance highly populated area, we weighted age groups stronger based on number of years of life expectancy. Not a dramatic weight, but just enough that in 50/50 counts, it would bump up the count with younger voters. Imagine the irony of comments like "for last 50 years the young vote has messed up our country."

Do you honestly want the "We have no idea what is going on" millennial crowd to have that much power right now? Great Scott, I'm one of the early members of their ranks, and think that would be the worst idea in the history of mankind.....although I could probably manipulate them into establishing a dictatorship to launch my diabolical dream of world domination.

I just have to say my main take away from this whole thread is that I had no idea you were younger than me. I always pictured you in your 60's, lol.

3 weeks off of 30.... Perks of having to work for everything I suppose, but I've always been referred to as an "old soul"

Being an old soul is one thing, but I don't know what having to work for everything has to do with it. I've worked for everything I have, but I have no desire to appear older than I am... I'll have plenty of time to be old... When I'm old! Although, 36 is arguably old enough.

stroker wrote: The element you all seem to be skimming over is the issue of accountability. The Government is sworn to uphold and enforce the social contract of the Constitution (or whatever laws apply) so as to allow the population some ability to react to new circumstances (aka change). The reason things are "chaotic" IMHO is that the issue of Accountability has basically been thrown to the wind. The EU has never paid any attention to what their populations want and things in the US are no longer considered on the basis of legality but what they can get away with (see the Affordable Care Act). This is all basically a reaction to that. Good reaction/bad reaction, we'll see.

I promised myself I wouldn't get involved in this thread but I have been drawn out. As to your assertion about what the can get away with, the Supreme Court court decides what is constitutional and thus legal. The Supreme Court decided that obamacare was legal. I'm not sure what your credentials are but I am certain that you are not in line to make any legal determination as such.

Accountability is what the people of the U.K. Are going to experience for some period of time.

mattm.......I don't know what to say in response to you that does not increase the odds of this thread becoming derailed, so I am not saying it.

Don't get 'drawn out' I guess is the only advice I can offer you. This is the internet after all.

In reply to joey48442:

It typically yields a better perspective upon life than those who haven't had to bust their behinds for everything in their life. In today's day and age, it makes you seem older.

WOW Really Paul? wrote: In reply to joey48442: It typically yields a better perspective upon life than those who haven't had to bust their behinds for everything in their life. In today's day and age, it makes you seem older.

I'm a little older than you, have had to do everything myself. Internet pissing match, GO.

$2.1T wiped off the stock market so far...good thing I don't have any money in there!

http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/27/investing/brexit-consequences-2-trillion-lost/index.html

(Wish I had some elsewhere though )

Beer Baron wrote:

Mitchell wrote: Whenever I hear someone say, "things used to be better," I think they leave out the crucial element, "for a white dude." I think that the world has become quite a bit better for every other demographic, at least in western civilization, than any other time in modern history. But I'm a naive millennial so my vote doesn't count.

The average white dude didn't have it so great back in the day. There are still more white men working blue-collar type jobs than white-collar type jobs.

Yeah, but they were cheap immigrant labor so who cares? There's more coming on the next boat.

10/10 would brexit again

In reply to Jay:

Hahaha

Step away for the weekend and things get heated.

OK, I just want to point out to all the people who constantly complain about 'The millennials', or Gen Y, or Gen X before them. Everyone always britches about the younger generation and how teens and 20 something’s are out of touch, spoiled, don't know E36 M3. It's always been the same, people always bitch that the young crowd are dumb. But let's not forget it was our teens and twenty something we sent off to WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam. The we suddenly praise the bravery, the heroism or the right stuff of those same people. We can't piss all over 20 something’s from one era then praise them from another era. People are a product of their era, and whenever push comes to shove time after time those young people step up to the plate and fight for their countries to save the previous generations who once were 20 something’s asses. I get really tired of always bashing the younger generation. I grew up hearing how my generation were lazy and entitled and now have to hear my own generation doing the same about the new 20 something’s.

Next. The exist vote was in many sold on a bill of lies. Many of the 'Exit' proponents have all but admitted they were lying about many points. They've been claiming that the money sent to Europe was over 350 million GBP a week, this has been proven over and over to be at least a two to one exaggeration and doesn't include what comes back on top of that. Next, they claim they are going to keep the open trade borders but stop immigration with the exit. Again, ignoring the fact that in or out of the EU, to get the open trade you must have open travel borders per the laws. Even Boris Johnson who is in the running to be the next Prime Minister admits he has no actual plans in place as to how to implement an exist. There is nothing to suggest that immigration will be slowed and the country has more ex-pats living and working in other parts of Europe than they do immigrants. What the hell is going to happen to those people.

You've also seen all the news that the #1 google search after the vote was 'what is BREXIT' and 'What does a yes vote mean' Maybe some of those 50+ crowd should have done some more research as to what they were voting for.

If you want to blame the 20 something’s for anything, blame them for apathy. The 60+ crowd who essentially carried the vote, voted in higher numbers than any elections since the 1993 general election. The 18-25 block voted in pathetically low numbers, they could have possibly have changed it. Bad on them.

The real irony of all this is that the labor party were 100% against leaving, yet statistically it was their strong hold voters who helped carry the exit vote based off the probably false stop the immigration message and the stick it to the man attitude towards David Cameron and the Conservative party.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens over the possibility of a second referendum and what will happen after the next general election when a very strong pro Europe government could be elected who may decide to not go ahead with it anyway.

Finally don't forget that the closest analogues thing here in the US would be a change to the constitution and where BREXIT was (stupidly) set up as 50% + 1, here it would take a 2/3 vote in congress then ratification by 75% of the states.

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine:

Many many more factors at play there than what I mentioned. I'll freely admit to that one.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson:

Agreed. My discussion was pertaining to the horror story PHELLER suggested.

Wait. It seems like politicians sold some people something that wasn't true or even in the plan? I won't hear of it sir. I don't believe it.

With all of the arguing back and forth about the unavoidable doom that will befall England and the rest of the world as a result - it might be worth noting that the last time England was conquered was the Norman invasion of 1066. They had been successfully running a sovereign nation for quite some time since then until the 1960s when they joined the ECC. They were at it alone for about 900 of the last 950 years. With a time line like that - let's call it a test ride that didn't work out. They will be fine.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: There is nothing to suggest that immigration will be slowed and the country has more ex-pats living and working in other parts of Europe than they do immigrants. What the hell is going to happen to those people.

Seems like many of them are afraid right now. My neighbors have a house in the south of France where they spend about half the year. Many of their friends and neighbors are British Ex-Pats. Going by the postings on the neighbors FB page many of those people are thinking they will face drastic changes to their lifestyle.

I'm super excited for the UK. I think they'll do better on their own.

Make no mistake, nobody is "against progress" as so many seem to believe, we just define progress very differently.

I think an independent UK is progress.

I hope other countries follow through with votes of their own.

The fact that the media is going nuts over this confirms that it's probably a really good call for them.

In reply to tuna55: Have you talked to, or know anyone in the UK with a full grasp of the issues and subsequent revelations and fallout?

In reply to Tralfaz:

Grasp of the issues? It's 1776 all over again man!! Feelings over issues!!

Smells like a ckusterfuxk, oil up and dive in.

Here's what I don't get- what's with the whole anti-EU thing?

All the EU really does is level the playing field- for workers, commerce, etc. It does not stop unique laws for each country- England still has a small cottage market to make cars. And they still drive on the left side. In spite of the want of a common currency- the Pound still exists, and there's a euro-pound trading market.

So they agree to follow EU environment laws- what's the big deal in that? Even with leaving, anything England sells in the EU STILL has to meet environmental and safety laws- so nothing changes there.

I hear them say that people are fed up with fellow Europeans coming to England to "steal jobs"- but are people even trying to get those jobs? If a skilled laborer from Greece took trade job, how is that stealing a job from an unskilled English laborer?

The EU is just a level playing field for people to work and companies to do business. And the field is leveled by representatives from each country.

In reply to alfadriver:

It imposes rules and restrictions about immigration and many other things that England no longer wanted to have imposed without an opportunity to negotiate on their own. They are the 5th largest economy in the world and feel, probably correctly that they can make a better deal for themselves and not have to jump thru all of the other hoops. A lot of other countries can't swing a bat that big and so leaving would be a terrible idea - but a country with a strong economy - people will do business with them regardless of what the EU doomsayers say. And England won't have to make sure their pillow labels have warnings about removal in 12 languages on them anymore :)

In reply to Huckleberry:

Unless they still want to send their stuff to the EU- then all of the products still have to meet EU standards. And since the EU is England's largest trading partner- it's still a big deal.

And I think it's the lack of restrictions about EU immigration that's the issue. But, again, it's interesting for people to complain about jobs being stolen when they are not applying for jobs nor getting the skills to fill the jobs. Which is a common problem here, too.

Still- with the want to sell stuff in the EU- every major rule still needs to be followed. And it's not as if the rest of the rules people are worried about are not already covered by some English law.

I think I'm more interested in the specific areas that are of concern, not the bigger talking points. What specific and unique EU rule is so imposing that leaving is so important.

And given a recent speech at the EU- why would anyone want to see the EU fail? All that really does is throw an entire continent into a new chaos that they have to work through before dealing with the rest of the world.

In reply to alfadriver:

They will still have to follow EU standards to trade with an EU country - except where they are able to negotiate an individual deal on their own. I think that is the important point here. They shed the least common denominator level playing field and hope they can do better in making agreements themselves. I think immigration is the big one now - and I'm not sure if they will be successful but money talks and they have more of it than all the EU countries except Germany. I expect them to be able to do business on their own terms after the dust settles.

In reply to alfadriver:

Doesn't the British Government pay significant money to be part of the EU? And doesn't the British economy (and the Germans) buoy the laggard economies of all the other member states? What is the incentive to stay and continue to pay into the EU when they can leave and have more autonomy? The products they produce will have to comply to EU standards either way, so why add additional burdens?