Briggs and Stratton Replacement engine

So my B&S 800 series (205cc 8hp) engine has failed (due to my incompetence) and I need to replace it.

But based on how B&S seems to refuse to make robust motors- I want to replace it with something else.

It appears that I can find a few choices- Predator from H-F has a 301cc motor that looks like it will work, Honda has one that will work, and then Northern Tool has Kohler, Ironton, and Powerhorse engines as well.

It looks like the cheapest replacement is Ironton, but I'm not really sure if it's $99 engine with similar displacement would be powerful enough.

Next would be the Harbor Freight Predator offer

Then Kohler, and then Honda.

But even doing a google search- it's hard to find which one would directly fit into the B&S spot on my chipper/shredder. It does appear that I at least need to remove the engine to get exactly the size- especially if it's a specific output shaft design or either a 3/4 or 1" shaft.

Anyway- am I missing any other choices? A B&S motor is roughly in the same ballpark as the Kohler one. But after seeing them being so not robust to fuel, and seeing other reviews that they are not great engines- I'm NOT going to use their POS brand.

If it's a 3/4 shaft, the Predator 212 is dead reliable in stock form; 2 1/2 seasons of autox and always started on the second pull, annual oil change and gas only. I use them as the base for my racing karts and modified they are a bit more finicky to start. They frequently go on sale for $99 then add the 20% discount.

I grabbed a $99 Predator engine to replace the dead B&S in my pushmower, and the thing bolted right on without any modifications, despite being larger (~5 hp vs 3.5 hp) Going on its second season now, it still starts first pull (with 3 prime pumps) at dead cold, and has plenty of oomph.

I've bought a fair bit of stuff from Surplus Center including small engines. They've got a variety of engines to choose from for cheap to reasonable prices, name brand stuff, and stuff that no one's every heard of.

I'm a B&S fan, but you're right, their homeowner stuff isn't known for longevity. If you stick with their I/C or Vanguard lines you're more likely to have a longer term and loving relationship, thanks to iron blocks and/or cylinder sleeves.

I'd pull the engine you're replacing, measure length, diameter, thread size, and keyway on the shaft, since those are the more critical measurements, and find something that's at least roughly the same for all of those. If you can find a suitable replacement with the same engine mounting bolt pattern too, great, but it's a lot easier to drill a few holes, or scab a piece of steel over the old mount to make an adapter than it is to extend the shaft or cut a new keyway in it.

Last winter my neighbor asked if I could rebuild the carb on his 8hp B&S TroyBuilt Rototiller. Sure. A month later he showed me the Honda OHV replacement he bought, I think ~$125. Seems to do everything the B&S did just fine.

Guess it would depend on your application. Kohlers are wonderful but you pay for the roller bearings.

In reply to bigdaddylee82:

My core issue with B&S is that they willingly choose to not be robust to E10. My older mower never had a problem with the fuel, even may years after the switch to E10- it's my newer snow blower and chipper engines (which I think both are 800 series) where they regularly gum up due to the fuel. It's not as if there are no solutions- materials that are robust to E10 have been known about for at least 20 years, if not 30. But the fact that I have to rebuild the carb every time I need to use them is totally unacceptable.

So there's no chance I'm using a B&S motor. They choose, and then I choose based on their choice.

914Driver wrote: Last winter my neighbor asked if I could rebuild the carb on his 8hp B&S TroyBuilt Rototiller. Sure. A month later he showed me the Honda OHV replacement he bought, I think ~$125. Seems to do everything the B&S did just fine. Guess it would depend on your application. Kohlers are wonderful but you pay for the roller bearings.

Fun "fact" that I'm not sure about- many think the HF Predators are clones of Honda motors, including having roller bearings. Having them made in China is a draw back, but it appears that B&S motors are also made in China- so it's a wash (and I choose to not support their engineering and management in Wisconsin- as I've posted why).

In reply to alfadriver:

I guess it doesn't bother me that much, because it's not inconvenient to get non-ethanol fuel.

The Gulf station by my house has 2 non-ethanol pumps, so it's convenient for me to keep a jerrycan of corn free fuel with a little Sta-Bil in it on hand. For that matter the Volvo and Grand Marquis get fuel from the same non-ethanol pump 90%+ of the time.

At least some of (maybe all?) the B&S' Vanguard line are made in the USA, but I get it, I can be stubborn about stuff too, I'll never own a Bridgestone tire again, for reasons.

In reply to bigdaddylee82:

Thing is- E10 is the most common fuel in the US now. And there should not be a reason I have to do anything special just for the engine, I should be able to run it just like all of my cars- fuel from any corner station pump should work just like my cars are.

Even IF I knew where I could get E0 fuel, out of principle I would not do it- as it's their choice to not be robust like the rest of us have to be.

In reply to alfadriver:

I hate Wisconsin, too. Dang cheese eating cold-as-berkeley state.

alfadriver wrote: In reply to bigdaddylee82: My core issue with B&S is that they willingly choose to not be robust to E10. My older mower never had a problem with the fuel, even may years after the switch to E10- it's my newer snow blower and chipper engines (which I think both are 800 series) where they regularly gum up due to the fuel.

Not defending B&S (I have no dog in that fight) but reading your post I couldn't help but see that the engine that gets used all the time has no problems, whereas the ones that get used infrequently (as snow blowers and chippers tend to) have issues. Yes, Ethanol compounds that problem, but any engine that gets used infrequently is more likely to have these problems. Even before ethanol-in-gas was a common thing, I recall overhauling old carburetors that had gummed up from having sat with old gas in them.

Does B&S actually state that their engines are non E-10 compatible? FWIW, the brand new Predator engine I bought has a huge sticker on it stating that the mower must be started every 3 months and run for at least 15 minutes, and the fuel must be treated with an anti-ethanol treatment, or the warranty will be void.

volvoclearinghouse wrote:

alfadriver wrote: In reply to bigdaddylee82: My core issue with B&S is that they willingly choose to not be robust to E10. My older mower never had a problem with the fuel, even may years after the switch to E10- it's my newer snow blower and chipper engines (which I think both are 800 series) where they regularly gum up due to the fuel.

Not defending B&S (I have no dog in that fight) but reading your post I couldn't help but see that the engine that gets used all the time has no problems, whereas the ones that get used infrequently (as snow blowers and chippers tend to) have issues. Yes, Ethanol compounds that problem, but any engine that gets used infrequently is more likely to have these problems. Even before ethanol-in-gas was a common thing, I recall overhauling old carburetors that had gummed up from having sat with old gas in them. Does B&S actually state that their engines are non E-10 compatible? FWIW, the brand new Predator engine I bought has a huge sticker on it stating that the mower must be started every 3 months and run for at least 15 minutes, and the fuel must be treated with an anti-ethanol treatment, or the warranty will be void.

None of my cars that sit for a long time have ever had problems. And my old mower never had a problem. So while it may be related to sitting time, I don't really accept that reason. Solving the problem isn't that hard.

I'll have to check on the Predator engine- I didn't realize that. Thankfully, HF has the manual to download.

I still have other issues with B&S, but most here would blow it off.

As I have stated many times, both of my antique engines, Tecumseh on the snow blower and the Craftsman on the mower function well on E-10. A little Stabil and a full tank when I put it away.

The only non E here is 91 octane and way to expensive for lawn/snow equipment.

So I want to return back to my original question- what's a good alternative to a B&S 800 205 cc engine. Thanks to bigdaddylee82, I found some other brands- some of which are not all that highly rated. And doing an Amazon search for both Honda & B&S found the brands Duromax and Lifan- but the reviews are not really old enough to give a strong indicator.

Also- I'm not even sure what engine size I should get- the engine is theoretically rated at 8hp, but the replacements are rated at 8 ft-lb instead. And based on the displacement- every other engine in the just over 200cc size is rated similarly.

And going by that size- the HF version drops to just about $100, and there are a few other choices up to $200. Just not sure which one would be the best choice.

Too bad it would cost as much as the motor to find a self pumping fuel injector. I know they exist- and are pretty sweet.

I've gone through 3 B&S motors on my lawn mower in 6 years. My yard does have a slight slope, and that is what B&S claim is popping their motors. They are seizing solid even with the correct level and fresh oil in them. Now I should say it only has maybe a 5 degree slope, maybe 10 in some places, so it's not like its a hill. My last one died about 3 weeks ago.

This weekend I splurged and went for a Honda mower. We'll see if it lasts any longer. I really liked my old mower however, and am going to replace the motor, again, and use it as a spare. So this thread holds lots of interest!

Honda is probably your best bet, not cheap, but darn fine engines.

In another life, at another job, we used some version of the Honda GX390 with electric start to power the hydraulics for the on-site ready mix concrete silos we used to build. The shear amount of abuse and neglect those things could take and continue to start and run was impressive.

Subaru, Robin, Subaru-Robin and Wisconsin-Robin were/are all the same thing, and usually a more budget friendly option, that might be worth looking into.

Was raised on B&S engines but fell away years ago in favor of Tecumseh then Kohler. I'm sticking w/ Kohler being brand loyal, even though more expensive. They haven't proven wrong yet. I wouldn't consider a B&S at all anymore.

What is the life expectancy of the chipper/ shredder? A cheaper engine like the Predator oughta work out well if reliable as said and is a direct bolt in.

I want to say my buddies chipper has an old craftsman/Kohler on it, and it works very well.

I fell in love with kohler growing up, my old (1970s) international cub cadets had the kohlor cast iron block 10hp motor, would lift the wheels on every shift. I honestly don't remember me or my dad changing the oil in the 15 years we owned them either. Parked them in the uninsulated garage after the last mow, and they say as they were till spring, fired right up every time, no stabil, no oil drain, not even a battery tender.

I know tractors and chippers aren't the same use of a motor, but an old tractor motor might be easy to get ahold of and mount up.

The Chinese Honda clone motors run forever, are cheap and there's nothing you can't get for them. The one in my minibike (6hp/200cc) is probably making double the stock power, starts effortlessly, runs perfect and will probably do that forever.

On a related note, the B&S in the riding mower at my rental house just died yesterday. How ironic. The lady who cuts the grass texted me that it made a loud POP and then oil poured out. I went to check it out and it only had a bit of oil on the dipstick. I poured more in, fired it up, and oil did indeed pour out - of the bottom seal (10 HP vertical shaft engine).

So, I guess its time for a new(er) riding mower.

In reply to volvoclearinghouse:

When my chipper died- I thought about getting another, until I looked up replacement engine costs vs new chipper ($100-350 vs. at least $700). Hence this thread started.

Check the link bigdaddylee82 posted- you will find even the most expensive engines you can replace it with is considerably less than a new tractor. Unless it, too, has problems. You can also find some different options on Amazon, and if you have one, HF may have a cheap option to save a lot of money.

In reply to alfadriver:

Unfortunately, the only vertical shaft engines available at HF are the 5.5 HP lawnmower (which won't work because it's got a lightweight flywheel, and only has 5.5 HP) and a 22 HP (which is $700). I paid $100 for this rider (it's an old Craftsman 30" rider) 2 years ago, and I can pick up used riders like this on CL pretty cheaply. Or, there's a Honda Harmony rider F/S near me for $400 with a bagger and everything.

if I could find a decent used 10HP B&S I could easily swap on, I might try that. The rest of the rider seems to work OK, though it's probably 20 years old.

Since the engine still runs, I thought about just replacing the seal, but who knows why the seal went or if there's now other engine damage. So I may just dump it on CL and roll the dice on the Harmony or whatever else is out there.

In reply to volvoclearinghouse:

That's a more thorough thought process than mine- as the value equation also includes the cost of used stuff- but looking at CL, even a lesser used one costs more than just replacing the motor. And I bought it new- and am lucky that's is still in great condition.

In reply to alfadriver:

In your case, yes- you bought it new, you know the history- I'd definitely look at repairing/ replacing the engine. And since yours is horizontal shaft, there's a lot more options.

Honestly, I've loved the Predator engine I put on my push mower, I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one, even if I do need to add a little Sta-Bil to the gas. My Simplicity has an 18HP Vanguard Briggs, and if it ever goes up, a Predator may well go into it's place.

A bit off topic, but I borrowed a chipper to use once and absolutely loathed it. It seemed to take forever and I had to pre-process the wood pretty thoroughly. Luckily, we live out in the country a bit, so now we just have a bonfire periodically, and/or pile it up in the woods far from the house and let it compost.

My experiences with the Predator 212 engines would put them at the top of the clone motors. As a bonus, if you pick up a 212 with the rectangular, cast (not square shiny) valve cover you get a hemi head, flat top piston, bigger valves, and roller rockers. They also reportedly put out 8 hp stock. They have the same stock number but you can see the difference on the box. To hear the vertical shaft version seems to be as robust as the horizontal shaft version has encouraged me to pick up one this weekend to replace the failed Techumseh on my Toro that I've had for about 10 years.