How many feet are there between your house and the back property line?
Seems like fitting something in the back might be possible. Maybe moreso if you tore down the existing garage, and used that side for a driveway apron in front of a garage that sits as close to the property line as possible.
First, You have to get her permission. The section most likely would have to be surveyed. She would have to make steps to make it a separate parcel. All on your nickle. Then you would have to agree to a price.
There has to be a better way.
iceracer said:First, You have to get her permission. The section most likely would have to be surveyed. She would have to make steps to make it a separate parcel. All on your nickle. Then you would have to agree to a price.
There has to be a better way.
First find out if a deal can be made. Just because someone wants something does not mean it’s time to call in the surveyors.
In fact in some communities with well established lot lines and known corners markers it’s a minor expense.
The high expense comes when a homeowner imagines they can bend the authorities to their will. Then the surveyors research any previous survey to see if there is some disagreement with existing surveys.
Now you have a legal battle and trust me lawyers cost a lot more than surveyors.
Consider a "tool shed" sitting next to a "carport".
These are temporary structures, and often do not require permits or subject to setbacks.
Where I live, I don't have to pay taxes on a "shed". So, I'm building a 30' shed.
In reply to Curtis :
Ok, 20' wide but couldn't you make it really long?
Take your simple drawings to a surveyor in your town. Ask them what they think about your idea, and what your steps should be. They'll steer you in the right direction.
My dad has owned a surveying and civil engineering firm for over 40 years. My brother worked for him for over 20 years before become the director of land use management for the county. Someone with this kind of experience will know what can and can't be done, and how to do it.
Research your neighbor's deed to make sure that the lot size can be changed. There are subdivision or deed restrictions which limit or prohibit changes in lot sizes that exist beyond the local zoning rules. Deed restrictions win in that circumstance.
docwyte said:In reply to Curtis :
Ok, 20' wide but couldn't you make it really long?
Yes, within the max percentage of impermeable structure allowed for the lot.
... and within reasonable resale marketability. As much as I want a huge garage, I think it will be an ugly eyesore out front that will strongly polarize opinions of future buyers.
docwyte said:In reply to Curtis :
Ok, 20' wide but couldn't you make it really long?
He’s right! If it’s deep you park your DD in front and have all the space behind to work. My shop is 30x50 with the front 2/3 for daily drivers and the rest for cars equipment and materials.
One trick that really works well is everything is on wheels. I can roll the welding table around Toolbox to wherever It’s handy, equipment not in use gets rolled out of the way and equipment put wherever it’s needed. So I can go from one machine to the next if that is the most efficient way.
Work benches are on a pair of wheels and I jack up the other end with my floor jack to place them where needed. That way two legs hold it in place if I really have to lean into it.
Make everything noble and you will have twice the space.
OHSCrifle said:How many feet are there between your house and the back property line?
Seems like fitting something in the back might be possible. Maybe moreso if you tore down the existing garage, and used that side for a driveway apron in front of a garage that sits as close to the property line as possible.
Thought about that. I have maybe 30' to the property line from the back of the house. The problem is access. It would occupy the entire back yard. I'll draw something quick.
The problem is that if I extend the garage I have over into the back yard (like the blue square), it will be too close to the back patio. But, adding to an existing garage sure would be easier from a permit standpoint. Most towns allow for that kind of stuff as long as you maintain one wall of the original structure.
I did consider scrapping the existing garage and putting a garage in the bottom right corner with a curved driveway into it, but then my whole backyard will be concrete and garage. Its also kind of a waste of a perfectly good garage getting torn down.
Who cares about the backyard when you have such an enormous front yard?
Raise the house up 10 feet, pour a slab, close it in and you have a new garage as big as the house foot print.
Cost, of course depends a lot on factors like local costs for house raising, if you are slab on grade or pier and beam, local height restrictions.
docwyte said:Who cares about the backyard when you have such an enormous front yard?
True, but the backyard is private and quiet. I suppose I could do a hedge or something.
In reply to Curtis :
I agree with your desire to stick to something that will be appealing to future buyers.
2 thoughts:
1- The bad news is that shops almost never improve property value. You are gonna give away your shop someday to a future buyer.
2- The good news is that you have the opportunity to improve the curb appeal of what you've got. It looks like your house is smaller than the rest in the neighborhood, sits further back on the lot, and sits cockeyed on the lot. Why not design a shop that could have a wonderful facade in keeping with the rest of the neighborhood? It could have a front porch, windows, maybe even rentable living space. You could design the shop space as a flex space that could become a future family room for the house (after it has served its time as a shop). This would increase the square footage of your house, and increase the appraised valuation.
You are working too hard to squeeze a shop into the back yard. The available space is I the front. You just need to pay a little extra for a good design.
Not a bad idea. Not sure how much I'm willing to spend. I can pour concrete myself for $1500 and put up a $6000 Versatube. Electric is already run, but I do like the idea of a bigger house.
SVrex, (ar anyone else) how would you do it? Here is the current layout of the house. 1-story, 2bd, 1ba, 835 sqft.
This photo is backwards from the property photo, showing the street and front yard toward the bottom of the photo
To give you an idea....
In reply to Curtis :
Well, don't forget that cost-wise you were already looking at purchasing additional land you don't need (plus legal fees, survey, variance, etc)
It will be cheaper to build on land you already own.
Plus, the added bonus of increasing your future property value (instead of no added value for the construction of the shop)
Design...
The easy button is to build a family room in front of the house, and go through the bath. Probably not what you want to do.
But you could also convert the porch to a glassed- in entry that connects the living room to the new family room. You will save costs if you make a new side entry into the house in the same location the existing entry is
So, the "Shop" would be 2X the size of a 2 car garage. The bay closest to the existing house would be future family room.
You would have a shop about 25x50, but the future house would have a 2 car garage in the front with a 25x25 family room connecting it to the house.
The garage would be side entry, and the street side of the garage would be the new facade of the house.
...AND you could keep your back yard and the existing shop (for dirtier work, storage, noise, etc)
Looking at that, my first thought would be to knock down the current garage and replace it with a 2.5 car garage, maybe with living space above it if not a lift (at a minimum, attic space--again, assuming no lift). Then have a 2 car, single wide (double long) pass through garage attached to the side of the house.
Curtis,
A few suggestions - with a disclaimer this isn't legal advice and I'm not your lawyer. Step 1 is discuss conceptually with neighbor - if she says no, no point pursuing, right? Are you in the City of Harrisburg, or some other municipality? You need to figure out who the land use administrator or similar person is for your municipality, who would decide if you get a building permit for the structure you want to build. Hopefully they are a helpful person, and can explain what the setbacks are for your proposed structure and your parcel. You might also have setbacks from structures on adjacent parcels. Given its age, your current house and your neighbors properties may not conform to the existing set backs - that's not an issue until you want to change something, then the new thing will have to comply. If you need a variance from any setback, those can be relatively common to get from the zoning hearing board, provided you can offer a good enough reason that is consistent with the standard to get such variances and no one opposes (and nearby neighbor consent is even better). It's a setback variance, not an easement variance (an easement is what you would need if you needed to locate something (waterline, etc.) across someone else's property). Most places would not allow a garage or the like on a parcel by itself, so you likely would need to consolidate the new parcel with your existing lot. I'm actually not sure if your neighbor would have to formally subdivide her parcel first to split off the parcel you are buying - I don't think so. I would consider adding the new garage as part of adding additional square footage to your existing house. I think you'd be more likely to get approval and improve the value of your house that way. On the other hand, if you can get by with in essence a 2 car shed, it may be much easier to locate that kind of temporary accessory structure on the property. Good luck.
In reply to Curtis :
This is not construction or legal advice. More like human psychology...
She's not gonna sell you the blue square. It would make her lot weird, you'd be grabbing the best part of her backyard, and then she'd have to worry about what kind of noise, mess, etc you are gonna make in her back yard.
Not gonna happen. My $.02.
But the front yard is a serious opportunity.
You all are making sense.
I am torn about the whole thing. I could just add on to the front of the house with a greatroom and garage, and the current front entry could be the pass-through for it, but then I'm covering the only windows in the master bedroom. I suppose I could extend the master bedroom into the addition and add a master bath which would make it a 2bd/2ba instead of a 2bd/1ba.
So in this quick drawing, I would be extending the front and adding basically a 24x24 great room (minus the additional bath/bedroom extension) plus a 24x24 2-car garage. Svrex, is that kinda what you were thinking?
My biggest concern is that this would all be built directly over my gas, water, and sewer lines. I don't want to have to tear down the house to dig to fix it.
I honestly doubt that construction would be allowed "on top of" active gas lines. Those would all probably need to be re-routed as part of the building process, provided there is room to relocate them on your lot.
Also, minor point on the 2nd bath, it will possibly reduce costs if they were closer to a back to back configuration, instead of being offset. That would leave a weird nook on the other side of the great room though.
I am fascinated with the solutions that members have come up with, this is quite an interesting thread.
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