I think the reason I come down on the Team captain side is that only I want to be responsible for my actions. It's what I was taught in the army and how I try to live my life still. Just being told to do a thing by the "authorities" means that it was a right or moral choice.
By comparison, Germans "did what they were told" in the 30's and 40's by the recognized authority of their country.
Being a good soldier means knowing when NOT to follow orders.
KyAllroad wrote: I think the reason I come down on the Team captain side is that only I want to be responsible for my actions. It's what I was taught in the army and how I try to live my life still. Just being told to do a thing by the "authorities" means that it was a right or moral choice. By comparison, Germans "did what they were told" in the 30's and 40's by the recognized authority of their country. Being a good soldier means knowing when NOT to follow orders.
And I think this is a big root of the conflict in the film. Tony wants to be this guy, too. But he tried to be that guy and it nearly killed him and cost him his relationships and a good chunk of his sanity. Much of the conflict isn't Tony vs. Cap, but Tony vs. a version of himself that he failed at being.
Thought it was very entertaining movie, wasn't on either side going in or coming out. Just like the action. Did have one groan in the movie. When the Cap grabbed the helicopter and the railing to hold the helicopter. Being a helicopter guy, that's BS. Even with his superpowers, that chopper is designed to lift and carry over 1000lbs over its own weight and create more torque than the airframe and rotor system can handle. And he holds it? Don't think so. But I see a lot of these types of errors in movies that only those that work around it would know. Average person wouldn't. A-Team movie was the worst for this. Couldn't even watch it with all those type of errors.
wlkelley3 wrote: ...and create more torque than the airframe and rotor system can handle....
Interesting factoid. Where is the failure point? Like, if you strapped the skids to the deck and gunned it, would the rotor and engine break out of the airframe and take off on their own?
JG Pasterjak wrote:KyAllroad wrote: I think the reason I come down on the Team captain side is that only I want to be responsible for my actions. It's what I was taught in the army and how I try to live my life still. Just being told to do a thing by the "authorities" means that it was a right or moral choice. By comparison, Germans "did what they were told" in the 30's and 40's by the recognized authority of their country. Being a good soldier means knowing when NOT to follow orders.And I think this is a big root of the conflict in the film. Tony wants to be this guy, too. But he tried to be that guy and it nearly killed him and cost him his relationships and a good chunk of his sanity. Much of the conflict isn't Tony vs. Cap, but Tony vs. a version of himself that he failed at being.
No doubt that Tony has changed a lot. He was very cocky in the early movies. His arc starting in Avengers, then through IM3 and AOU and finally in CW, is quite interesting. He started IM3 having PTSD after the Battle of New York, tried to build a foolproof system to protect the world in AOU (and failed and, by extension, killed a bunch more people). You can see how he'd be chastened by all that and willing to submit to some kind of authority.
Steve's arc is almost a mirror image. He started off as a US Army soldier, a guy who just followed orders. Then he went through the whole freezing and "man out of time" thing but remained a soldier, only now he worked for SHIELD. But SHIELD turned out to be corrupt. He's disillusioned with authority now because it has let him down.
Both sides are understandable and you can identify with them. That's a sign of how well-written the whole MCU is.
NickD wrote: My one complaint (And I am a huge fan of the MCU, so don't think I'm anti-MCU) is that the MCU films tend to wrap up a little too neatly. The bad guys end up dead (except for Loki and Zemo) and the good guys all go home at the end of the day (except Quicksilver, RIP). You never really worry too much because, as a whole, you know everyone is going to pull through (Hell, even Helen Cho survived an Ultron blast to the chest and Phil Coulson survived an Asgardian scepter through the heart). It'd be good to kill a character off once in a while, make us really wonder if a character is going to pull through.
Infinity Wars are coming. 2018 and 2019, followed by the Inhumans. They will kill, it's just going to be a little bit longer. At least, if they follow the arc loosely they should.
They've only laid out plans for those. Infinity Wars will be 2 parts. Inhumans will be the end of the "phase". Depending on how they tie it all together, Phase 4 should prove very very interesting. I'm just making the assumption this is such a cash cow license they'll keep doing them.
wlkelley3 wrote: Thought it was very entertaining movie, wasn't on either side going in or coming out. Just like the action. Did have one groan in the movie. When the Cap grabbed the helicopter and the railing to hold the helicopter. Being a helicopter guy, that's BS. Even with his superpowers, that chopper is designed to lift and carry over 1000lbs over its own weight and create more torque than the airframe and rotor system can handle. And he holds it? Don't think so. But I see a lot of these types of errors in movies that only those that work around it would know. Average person wouldn't. A-Team movie was the worst for this. Couldn't even watch it with all those type of errors.
I mean, he is a super-soldier. He runs at like 55mph and goes toe-to-toe with gods, so holding the helicopter to a railing kinda seems easy in comparison.
mblommel wrote: Ideologically I was on team Cap's side all the way, but team Ironman had way better characters; specifically Spidey and Ant Man. Agreed that the airport scene was amazing. Looking forward to the new spiderman movies.
ant man was on Cap's team... 
NickD wrote:wlkelley3 wrote: Thought it was very entertaining movie, wasn't on either side going in or coming out. Just like the action. Did have one groan in the movie. When the Cap grabbed the helicopter and the railing to hold the helicopter. Being a helicopter guy, that's BS. Even with his superpowers, that chopper is designed to lift and carry over 1000lbs over its own weight and create more torque than the airframe and rotor system can handle. And he holds it? Don't think so. But I see a lot of these types of errors in movies that only those that work around it would know. Average person wouldn't. A-Team movie was the worst for this. Couldn't even watch it with all those type of errors.I mean, he is a super-soldier. He runs at like 55mph and goes toe-to-toe with gods, so holding the helicopter to a railing kinda seems easy in comparison.
Nerds being nerds (myself very, very clearly included...) someone actually did the math on what it would take for him to have bicep curled the helicopter, and it came out to his needing to be about 10x stronger than a normal human. Also working in rotorcraft, I rolled my eyes at the scene from an engineering standpoint but I figure if you've got a guy with a suit that can shrink to the size of an ant and then go all Ultraman that I can suspend my disbelief for Cap using a helicopter for a killer arm workout.
Don't get me started on helicopters airlifting Jaegers in Pacific Rim though... twitches
Everything about Pacific Rim causes twitches.
But that's a topic for another thread.....
Before I got to know cap's character, I always thought he was going to be government pawn/yes man. I learned long ago, that he is anything but that, and I've been strongly team cap ever since. The American way is not to be governed, cap knows this.
If you guys haven't read the civil war series, you have missed an amazing literary masterpiece. Check it out. It's all on marvel digital unlimited, sign up for a month ($10?) and check it out. Unlimited is very well done, you flip through the slides like you're reading a comic book or graphic novel, but you can set it up so that you can't see the next window. It's cool because you dont see the future in your periphery. It's access to basically the entire marvel universe's archive. You can search by plotline too. Good stuff. Spoiler alert, it doesn't end like the movie.
revrico wrote: They've only laid out plans for those. Infinity Wars will be 2 parts. Inhumans will be the end of the "phase". Depending on how they tie it all together, Phase 4 should prove very very interesting. I'm just making the assumption this is such a cash cow license they'll keep doing them.
I thought I heard that the Inhumans movie is on hold. They've started introducing inhumans on Agents of SHIELD.
In reply to 4cylndrfury:
Good. We missed Winter Soldier in the movies, though we did catch Age of Ultron. Just got Winter Soldier out from the library and watched it last night, in preparation for going to see Civil War next weekend.
Ashyukun wrote:NickD wrote:Nerds being nerds (myself very, very clearly included...) someone actually did the math on what it would take for him to have bicep curled the helicopter, and it came out to his needing to be about 10x stronger than a normal human. Also working in rotorcraft, I rolled my eyes at the scene from an engineering standpoint but I figure if you've got a guy with a suit that can shrink to the size of an ant and then go all Ultraman that I can suspend my disbelief for Cap using a helicopter for a killer arm workout. Don't get me started on helicopters airlifting Jaegers in Pacific Rim though... *twitches*wlkelley3 wrote: Thought it was very entertaining movie, wasn't on either side going in or coming out. Just like the action. Did have one groan in the movie. When the Cap grabbed the helicopter and the railing to hold the helicopter. Being a helicopter guy, that's BS. Even with his superpowers, that chopper is designed to lift and carry over 1000lbs over its own weight and create more torque than the airframe and rotor system can handle. And he holds it? Don't think so. But I see a lot of these types of errors in movies that only those that work around it would know. Average person wouldn't. A-Team movie was the worst for this. Couldn't even watch it with all those type of errors.I mean, he is a super-soldier. He runs at like 55mph and goes toe-to-toe with gods, so holding the helicopter to a railing kinda seems easy in comparison.
Giant-Man does bring up an interesting point. If Ant-Man becomes more dense and durable and stronger because his "particles become compressed together" when he shrinks, wouldn't that mean he would get weaker and frail when he became Giant-Man because his particles would be spaced apart farther?
KyAllroad wrote: Everything about Pacific Rim causes twitches. But that's a topic for another thread.....
Hey man, don't be hatin' on Pacific Rim. Maybe not the most realistic, but I freakin' love that film. Closest to a good live-action Gundam or Evangelion movie we'll ever see, I think. And causes less mental scarring than a live-action Evangelion movie would. * Thinks of End Of Evangelion and Evangelion 3.33 You Can [Not] Redo, cries internally *
I appreciated the personal feel of WS and CW over the detachment of ultron.
NickD wrote: Giant-Man does bring up an interesting point. If Ant-Man becomes more dense and durable and stronger because his "particles become compressed together" when he shrinks, wouldn't that mean he would get weaker and frail when he became Giant-Man because his particles would be spaced apart farther?
That's a good point- he shouldn't be any stronger than he is normally when massive, he'd just be a more effective distraction due to his size. That brings up something else I hadn't thought of until now- I wonder if his suit has an 'emergency purge' switch to dump all the Pym Particle-juice before he was captured- otherwise Stark (and anyone else who had access to the suit...) would be able to duplicate the technology.
NickD wrote: Hey man, don't be hatin' on Pacific Rim. Maybe not the most realistic, but I freakin' love that film. Closest to a good live-action Gundam or Evangelion movie we'll ever see, I think. And causes less mental scarring than a live-action Evangelion movie would. * Thinks of End Of Evangelion and Evangelion 3.33 You Can [Not] Redo, cries internally *
Oh, I absolutely love Pacific Rim too- but the whole 'let's airlift a 5-million pound Jaeger with 8 Chinooks' thing had me facepalming. I suppose plenty of other parts of the movie should have too, but I was distracted by how awesome it was. The Honest Trailers guys got it right- it's either the most awesome dumb movie ever made or the dumbest awesome movie ever made.
Ashyukun wrote:NickD wrote: Giant-Man does bring up an interesting point. If Ant-Man becomes more dense and durable and stronger because his "particles become compressed together" when he shrinks, wouldn't that mean he would get weaker and frail when he became Giant-Man because his particles would be spaced apart farther?That's a good point- he shouldn't be any stronger than he is normally when massive, he'd just be a more effective distraction due to his size. That brings up something else I hadn't thought of until now- I wonder if his suit has an 'emergency purge' switch to dump all the Pym Particle-juice before he was captured- otherwise Stark (and anyone else who had access to the suit...) would be able to duplicate the technology.NickD wrote: Hey man, don't be hatin' on Pacific Rim. Maybe not the most realistic, but I freakin' love that film. Closest to a good live-action Gundam or Evangelion movie we'll ever see, I think. And causes less mental scarring than a live-action Evangelion movie would. * Thinks of End Of Evangelion and Evangelion 3.33 You Can [Not] Redo, cries internally *Oh, I absolutely love Pacific Rim too- but the whole 'let's airlift a 5-million pound Jaeger with 8 Chinooks' thing had me facepalming. I suppose plenty of other parts of the movie should have too, but I was distracted by how awesome it was. The Honest Trailers guys got it right- it's either the most awesome dumb movie ever made or the dumbest awesome movie ever made.
Yes, if anything, he should be much weaker when he is massive
"Watch out for bridges and hop-ons. You’re going to get some hop-ons. "
Absolutely love the movie and the tie ins. Glad to see Sony let them use Spider-Man. My wife was confused by that and I had to explain a bunch to her.
I also regret not seeing Ant-Man (not by choice, just didn't get to see it)
Also, I love Cap and Iron Man equally, but I honestly don't know who to side with.
SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote: Absolutely love the movie and the tie ins. Glad to see Sony let them use Spider-Man. My wife was confused by that and I had to explain a bunch to her. I also regret not seeing Ant-Man (not by choice, just didn't get to see it) Also, I love Cap and Iron Man equally, but I honestly don't know who to side with.
Ant-Man is definitely worth watching. I think it's my second-favorite MCU film after The Winter Soldier.
Finally saw it. Loved it.
Pretty sure I'm team Black Widow. Philosophically, I'm opposed to the unilateral action, independent vigilante thing. But Tony and Vision were being dicks. Black Widow had her head on strait: power needs some sort of checks and controls - people need accountability; but when your friend is in the right, you stand up for them.
Looks like I need to see Ant-Man and Winter Soldier.
Tom_Spangler wrote:revrico wrote: They've only laid out plans for those. Infinity Wars will be 2 parts. Inhumans will be the end of the "phase". Depending on how they tie it all together, Phase 4 should prove very very interesting. I'm just making the assumption this is such a cash cow license they'll keep doing them.I thought I heard that the Inhumans movie is on hold. They've started introducing inhumans on Agents of SHIELD.
They may have, I'm not up on movie news. I'm still a little bummed they pushed the next Guardians to next year instead of this fall.
Beer Baron wrote: Finally saw it. Loved it. Pretty sure I'm team Black Widow. Philosophically, I'm opposed to the unilateral action, independent vigilante thing. But Tony and Vision were being dicks. Black Widow had her head on strait: power needs some sort of checks and controls - people need accountability; but when your friend is in the right, you stand up for them.
Wow. Nailed it. Most astute analysis with the fewest words prize for you, sir.
revrico wrote:Tom_Spangler wrote:They may have, I'm not up on movie news. I'm still a little bummed they pushed the next Guardians to next year instead of this fall.revrico wrote: They've only laid out plans for those. Infinity Wars will be 2 parts. Inhumans will be the end of the "phase". Depending on how they tie it all together, Phase 4 should prove very very interesting. I'm just making the assumption this is such a cash cow license they'll keep doing them.I thought I heard that the Inhumans movie is on hold. They've started introducing inhumans on Agents of SHIELD.
Inhumans is on hold, but not cancelled. I did notice it was a missed opportunity that they didn't mention Inhumans in Civil War. There are several thousand Inhumans running around Earth now, and the Sokovia Accords was only worried about monitoring the dozen or so Avengers.
Agents of SHIELD has always done a kind of back-and-forth with the movies. It set up things for Winter Soldier and HYDRA's takeover of SHIELD and then dealt with the aftermath of SHIELD's dissolution. It covered how Coulson had hidden away and refurbished the helicarrier so that it was ready for Age Of Ultron. And those are just a few examples. So very weird that the Inhumans weren't mentioned in Civil War, even in passing.
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