Car toaled with a twist. Legal question.

townsend7,

I very much understand your point and understand the frustration. However, Datsun is on point. Your agreement with the manufacturer isn't the insurance company responsibility. If your car (without lemons issues) had a cash value of $10k, then you could go buy another one (presumably without issues) for that same $10k. You had an agreement to essentially "sell" the car to the manufacturer for $19k. That's between you and them. Wish I could offer more advice, but it's hard without really seeing that agreement. I assume you've given a full copy to them?

Dude. Look at it from the standpoint of the OP. No casual Friday for him! You might be the good guy in the industry, but he is surrounded by insurance people whose job is to make him go away as cheaply as possible. Or are you saying that he shouldn't get compensated? In my case I lawyered up cuz the first thing outta the other guys mouth, after crossing the double yellow and wiping my car out, was that I better hire a really good lawyer, so I did. But here, this guy is getting screwed! He got hurt in the crash and it sounds like that is going on his health insurance? Then ther's this bit.. "They put me in a rental car for 30 days. When I refused their offer, which they refuse to put in writing, they stopped paying for the rental." Sorry. This isn't playing nice. This is sharks in business suits.

Datsun1500 wrote: If I offer to buy your house for $100k when it's worth $50k but it burns down before closing, what will your insurance pay out?

I offer to buy your house for more than it's worth. The contract is agreed upon and inforce. Before completion of the transfer a third party burns down your house. I'm sure you'd happily accept the $50K loss and not hold the arsonist responsible, right?

Jay_W wrote: Dude. Look at it from the standpoint of the OP. No casual Friday for him! You might be the good guy in the industry, but he is surrounded by insurance people whose job is to make him go away as cheaply as possible. Or are you saying that he shouldn't get compensated? In my case I lawyered up cuz the first thing outta the other guys mouth, after crossing the double yellow and wiping my car out, was that I better hire a really good lawyer, so I did. But here, this guy is getting screwed! He got hurt in the crash and it sounds like that is going on his health insurance? Then ther's this bit.. "They put me in a rental car for 30 days. When I refused their offer, which they refuse to put in writing, they stopped paying for the rental." Sorry. This isn't playing nice. This is sharks in business suits.

They've refused to put anything in writing at this point. It's been well over a month. The hospital bills are all coming to me directly and not my health I insurer. Doctors don't seem really excited to see me because it's auto accident related. I've been asked if I have any documenting from the insurer that's accepted responsibility, which of course I don't because they refuse to. Having problems actually getting to see the doctor because of this which is a separate rant I guess.

They will probably refuse the doctor / hospital bills because I was already sick anyway....

Is it possible to accept the $10,000 from the insurance and then go after the person involved for the remainder? Sucks for that person, but they started the whole thing by crashing.

With respect to your medical bills, you'll want to contact your carrier. Laws vary from state to state, but in any circumstance, the other persons' insurance isn't going to pay your medical bills as they come in. They wait for you to have any treatment you need, gather all the bills, and then make a settlement offer. That will happen whether you have an attorney or not. Depending on the state you're in, you or them may have right of recovery for bills paid.

This is not going to be an easy answer for you regarding the value of your car. They're liable for the cash value of the car you were driving. You're trying to get them to pay for a contract they're not responsible for. Not saying they won't pay it...I'd consider it depending on your contract...but it's not an absolute.

As for taking the $10k and going after the driver, when you settle a total loss with the carrier, it's considered as full settlement (they may even have you sign a release).

As Klayfish touched on, your medical bills should be going to YOUR car insurance company. It is up to them to pay the accident-related bills, and then decide if they are going to pursue the other guy's insurance for reimbursement. That's the way it works in nearly all states, as far as I know.

Good luck.

Datsun1500 wrote:

Datsun1500 wrote: You car is only worth $19K at the moment Chrysler actually pays you $19K, until that point it's a $10K car. .... snip .... The offer Chrysler made to you is not relevant at all to your accident, as it was just an offer. How long before the car was wrecked was that offer made? Why did you not take it immediately?

Hmmmm.... I don't believe I've mentioned Chrysler anywhere in this thread. I'm curious how you came to that conclusion. I took the offer immediately. Completing these transactions take time. Ordering the correct car takes time, particularly during the model year changeover when it's impossible to place an order for a specific configuration. FWIW I can provide a specific VIN for the specific car that was supposed to replace mine. The only reason that's no longer happening is because Quincy Mutual's insured caused an accident voiding my contract.

Duke wrote: As Klayfish touched on, your medical bills should be going to YOUR car insurance company. It is up to them to pay the accident-related bills, and then decide if they are going to pursue the other guy's insurance for reimbursement. That's the way it works in nearly all states, as far as I know. Good luck.

Quincy Mutual very quickly accepted responsibility and told me to send my medical bills to them.

Yes, they want to collect and review your medical bills so that they can evaluate and monitor your claim. But they will not pay them as they receive them. They'll make you an offer when you're done and you'll sign a release.

Datsun1500 wrote: In reply to townsend7: I used Chrysler as an example because it was easier to type than "The manufacturer"

You could have saved yourself some effort and used Ford.

this is fun to read and honestly, depending on the wording of the insurance contract, and the dealer buy back contract, a lawyer might be the way to go.

Semantics and state law are going to be everything on this one.

I am in the middle on my suggestion. I would purchase an hour of a lawyers time and have him read both contracts. Depending on wording and state law, they could owe you $19k. They also could only owe you $10k. You have had sound and upfront advice from an adjuster and he has pretty clearly stated an insurance companies opinion. You need to see the other side for the whole picture.

Is it worth a couple $100 to you to find out?

Maybe the manufacturer found some guy to run into you so they would save the $19k.

Duke wrote: As Klayfish touched on, your medical bills should be going to YOUR car insurance company. It is up to them to pay the accident-related bills, and then decide if they are going to pursue the other guy's insurance for reimbursement. That's the way it works in nearly all states, as far as I know. Good luck.

not sure about that … when I had my "big" one, my hospitalization paid (after deductible) at their contractually agreed 80% … the hospital et al were hounding me for the rest … the driver at faults ins wasn't going to pay anything on medical until after all was said and done … though we had settled on the value of the car and they paid that immediately

though they had made sounds to the effect that they were going to low ball the E36 M3 out of me … that's when I hired a lawyer

ended up with triple the amt. that they had first proposed (which didn't cover all my medical bills) … sure it cost me upwards to 1/3 but even that was way more than they were offering

the bill collectors were not allowed to contact me after I gave them my lawyers contact info

In reply to townsend7:

Or VW.

Or AC.

My only comment is that the way the insurance co is treating you and not putting things in writing they are expecting you to get a lawyer.

townsend7 wrote:

Duke wrote: As Klayfish touched on, your medical bills should be going to YOUR car insurance company. It is up to them to pay the accident-related bills, and then decide if they are going to pursue the other guy's insurance for reimbursement. That's the way it works in nearly all states, as far as I know. Good luck.

Quincy Mutual very quickly accepted responsibility and told me to send my medical bills to them.

But they did not put in writing that they would pay for them did they.

Get help. You are a small fish in shark infested waters playing a game that you don't know the rules and the sharks are experts at playing.

Sorry for your bad luck.

No one here is rooting against you. It's a crappy situation. We're just trying to explain the reality of how this will go. Think about it this way - you are entitled to be made whole, no one is arguing that. Making you whole is a two step process - the car and the deal. The ins company will pay for a typical car, not one that had a special condition that led to a deal. So that's the first $10k without argument. The second part of making you whole will be a separate process - a lawsuit against the driver, probably as a civil (?) suit. You had an agreement, and his actions prevented you from collecting $9k. This part will require lawyers, courts, fees, and the unknown of his ability to pay at the end. With a good solid written agreement that is clearly shown as void due to his actions, it's not a tough case. Getting there will be the unfun part.

Thought I'd post a quick update. Friday I got a check in the mail from the insurance company for the undisputed amount. Their letter explicitly says I can cash the check without waiving my right to dispute the rest of the claim. Guess I'll be talking to my lawyer Tuesday morning to see if I should actually cash it.

I'm very surprised they sent you a check for the "undisputed amount". Most companies don't. Do what you want to, but if they didn't have you sign any kind of release, you absolutely can cash the check. It won't legally bar you from continuing your claim.

Klayfish wrote: I'm very surprised they sent you a check for the "undisputed amount".

It certainly wasn't what I expected.