cash for clunkers

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/05/05/breaking-lawmakers-reach-agreement-on-cash-for-clunkers-legisla/

It appears that a U.S. "Cash for Clunkers" program is right around the corner now that President Obama and the U.S. House of Representatives have come to an agreement on how the bill should be structured. However, it's not a done-deal yet, as the legislation still needs to get through Congress. Details remain sketchy for now, but under the proposed legislation, new car buyers trading in an older vehicle that averages 18 miles per gallon or less will qualify for a voucher that's worth $3,500 if the new car gets at least 22 mpg and up to $4,500 if the new car manages at least ten mpg higher than the "clunker." Trucks would also qualify for a voucher of $3,500 if the new vehicle gets at least two mpg better than the old one or $4,500 if the new truck manages five mpg better than the trade-in. Unlike some previous proposals, both foreign and U.S.-made models would qualify for the program. It's not yet clear how the bill would be funded, but it would reportedly be available for one full year and up to one million total new vehicles.

So I can bring in a real clunker and get 3500-4500 towards my new car, man that fiesta is going to be cheap.

Edit: I would buy something unwanted and worth squat to turn into the crusher.

wherethefmi wrote: Edit: I would buy something unwanted and worth squat to turn into the crusher.

thats the problem, so will everyone else

there go all the cheap cars in general

wherethefmi wrote: Edit: I would buy something unwanted and worth squat to turn into the crusher.

Like $200X vehicles? That's how the general population looks at Challenge car raw material.

Apexcarver wrote:

wherethefmi wrote: Edit: I would buy something unwanted and worth squat to turn into the crusher.

thats the problem, so will everyone else there go all the cheap cars in general

There go a lot of them. At least it looks like it requires the purchase of a new car. Which makes a new car cheap, you could get a Miata for about 18,000.

Trucks would also qualify for a voucher of $3,500 if the new vehicle gets at least two mpg better than the old one or $4,500 if the new truck manages five mpg better than the trade-in.

Ok, so my 20 yr old truck gets 14 mpg. If I find a new truck that gets 16 mpg, I ain't buying it. I can do a little work to my "clunker" and gain that extra 2 mpg. Not worth the trade in, IMO.

What will happen to the cars that are traded in? will they be crushed? sent to salvage yards? Because in the past, these laws have required crushing the old cars. This removes the cars (and the parts needed to maintain other older cars) from the stream of commerce, meaning eventually there are no cheap cars left.

Living in houston, people were desperate for transportation. There were no "cheap" cars. There were as many people that wanted a car as there were cars. 1992 ford escort with 140k on it? $2000. Anything that was capable of driving even semi decently was $2000. Anything less than that had major problems.

Here in West Virginia, 1992 Ford Escorts go for $200... there are lots of beaters. So I've lived in both worlds... and I can tell you, a world where there are no affordable cars is a E36 M3ty world. Consider the state of mass transit in this blessed country of ours! What will people who can't afford a decent car drive? This will effectively make just about every beater out there worth $3500 to anyone contemplating a new car purchase.

I think this would be a big mistake, beyond the ramifications to our sport and our hobbies... this affects peoples lives.

I think it's time to stock up on a bunch of gas-guzzling old crap boxes. Explorers, Dakotas, Crown Vics, etc...

And I think these laws suck.

Well we really just need to team up everyone wanted to get their $3500 certificate with all the totalled crown vics at govt auctions!!

Could use this to dump the blue beast

I would think this would be completely opposed to by the rental car companies.

The rental car companies like to buy new cars, quickly add 20k miles in one year and then auction them off onto the used market.

Currently it is this type of senerio:
$20k new or $15k used w/ 20k miles on it.

Under the new deal the $15k used would be compared to $15.5, new
($20 -$4.5k= $15.5)

Sure the examples are generalizations but I think this would hurt the sales (and take out the value) of newer used cars. Depriciation for all cars would be accelerated.

Yeah my plan would be to buy a barely running 150 dollar car, turn it in bank my 3350 in savings on the new car. Though I can see how every car could feasibly become worth 3500, but that's impossible remember not everyone can afford a new car even with 3500 in savings. Also you have to have a net gain in mpg for this to work.

Who's going to cry over a crushed ranger, or E36 M3ty escort.

The real problem is that I think your average person that owns an older vehicle with poor gas mileage is kept away from the dealer for other reasons. Lack of available credit, lack of monthly income for comprehensive insurance on top of car payments, etc, probably keep more people out of new cars. I think the people that are pinched at the bottom of the food chain aren't going to be able to buy new cars no matter if its $3500 or $5000 incentives... and now the cars that they normally buy for basic transportation aren't there anymore, as they've all been bought by people further up the food chain looking to turn them into cash for their new car purchase.

the clunker's got to be an EPA certified gas guzzler. And the new car has to be at least $32k (as I recall). It does not apply to econoboxes on either side of the equation.

foxtrapper wrote: the clunker's got to be an EPA certified gas guzzler. And the new car has to be at least $32k (as I recall). It does not apply to econoboxes on either side of the equation.

That makes even less sense to me now. So instead of helping the people who might actually need help, its helping people who could get by fine on a little less, and hurting those who cannot?

Middle class can now buy a 32,000 car for 28,000, and the poor guy cannot buy a junker anymore? I is confuzzled.

mtn wrote:

foxtrapper wrote: the clunker's got to be an EPA certified gas guzzler. And the new car has to be at least $32k (as I recall). It does not apply to econoboxes on either side of the equation.

That makes even less sense to me now. So instead of helping the people who might actually need help, its helping people who could get by fine on a little less, and hurting those who cannot? Middle class can now buy a 32,000 car for 28,000, and the poor guy cannot buy a junker anymore? I is confuzzled.

no, the poor guy can buy a junker that gets over 20mpg. The biggest hit will be, in my opinion, beater trucks/SUVs.

How many babe/challenge/LeMons cars are classed as Gas Guzzlers?

foxtrapper wrote: the clunker's got to be an EPA certified gas guzzler. And the new car has to be at least $32k (as I recall). It does not apply to econoboxes on either side of the equation.

If that is true, then it sounds like a pretty self-defeating law. 32 grand is not exactly in the reach of most people (despite the fact that is was common a few years ago even though most couldn't really afford them). And generally, someone buying a car for 32 grand is not likely going to go out and buy a clunker to turn it in, or be driving a car they want to let go for $3000 in credits.

mtn wrote:

foxtrapper wrote: the clunker's got to be an EPA certified gas guzzler. And the new car has to be at least $32k (as I recall). It does not apply to econoboxes on either side of the equation.

That makes even less sense to me now. So instead of helping the people who might actually need help, its helping people who could get by fine on a little less, and hurting those who cannot? Middle class can now buy a 32,000 car for 28,000, and the poor guy cannot buy a junker anymore? I is confuzzled.

Yep. Don't hold me too hard on the 32k. But it's worthless to someone trying to buy a cheap new car.

I did look into it, thinking about trading in one of my cars. But nothing I have sucks gas enough to qualify, and I'm not spending enough on a new car to qualify either.

foxtrapper wrote: the clunker's got to be an EPA certified gas guzzler. And the new car has to be at least $32k (as I recall). It does not apply to econoboxes on either side of the equation.

I haven't found any reference to that, but if this is the case, that pushes the law from a bad piece of legislation to outright lunacy. How many things with high mileage ratings are there in the $32K price range?

MadScientistMatt wrote: How many things with high mileage ratings are there in the $32K price range?

Hybrids....

A fact sheet describing how different types of vehicles qualify is here: http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090505/cashforclunkers.pdf

The program will last only a year; its purpose appears to be first and foremost to stimulate new car sales, and secondarily function as an environmental program.

Some more stuff about it:

Freakonomics guy is against it: http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/08/no-cash-for-clunkers/

Article: http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/06/congress-close-on-cash-for-clunkers/?scp=1&sq=cash%20for%20clunkers&st=cse

Well crap, I guess I won't be trading that rusty shell of an MG for $3500.

neon4891 wrote: How many babe/.../LeMons cars are classed as Gas Guzzlers?

every last friggin one of em

Yeah, I must admit I'm VERY conflicted about this. i would love to get $3500 for my Integra. But by the same token, it really bugs me to see so many neat (to me, anyway) cars sitting outside the dismantlining yards in my area. Last week I saw a pretty nice (for a 30 year old car) Olds Cutlass Supreme coupe. Body looks great, so it could be a decent runner with either a new tranny or engine.........sigh.

Well, there go my spare parts sources for my FC...