CDL and other questions

so those guys that run a modernish crew cab dually and a 3 car wedge trailer that transport your junk. do you need a CDL to do that?

i'm not thinking that i want to do that for hire, i'm thinking that i want to do that as in buy multiple vehicles south, bring them up here, and sell them. kinda specialize in the things i know people love up here but all turned to dust 10 years ago kinda thing. and if 2 are going up hook up someone with the last spot who otherwise couldnt afford shipping at full price, like you cheapskates.

but i need to know the ins and outs of this. like DOT numbers versus "not for hire" on the truck, is a CDL needed and what type, do you need to stop at weigh stations if you are "not for hire," do you need to keep log books like big rig drivers, etc.

other questions - is a 90's chevy 6.5 turbo crew cab dually(i've found a 96 for cheap because it's the truck of many colors) up to this task or are the newer rigs just that much superior that you're screwing yourself over with a pre duramax/cummins/powerchoke rig?

i know i was taking my current dually(rusty POS, not up to the task of much anymore) to michigan with a 14 foot cargo trailer to help my FIL out by throwing some new windows in his farmhouse and i got pulled over by the MSP. the guy was reading me the riot act about not having DOT numbers or company name displayed on truck, a logbook, not stopping at weigh stations, being overweight, claiming my truck was a half ton even though it was a dually, and all kinds of other crap that i couldn't tell if he was making up or not because my rig was 10000% legal in ohio, licensed as a commercial pickup, and i was well under weight for my plate class. when i told him i was going up for personal reasons and not getting paid he let me go, but i don't want hassled for any reason in any state, so i need to cover my behind and do things right if they're going to get done at all.

i am in the figuring out the feasibility stages of some rather large possible life changes, as i've come to the point that my body is angry with the path i am on, and i really want to make my living without destroying what is left of my knees and back.

There are two main problems that I see with your plan. If you own the vehicles you are transporting then you are not actually shipping for hire, but if you do carry a vehicle for someone else than you are shipping for hire and generally that requires a CDL, bills of lading, and DOT log books.

Second issue is with the 3-car wedge. With a total weight under 26k# and a trailer less than 10k# in almost every state you are non-CDL. Similarly with a total weight over 26k# and trailer over 10k# you are almost always a class A CDL. Unfortunately the total weight under 26k# with a trailer over 10k# (which is where you would be with a 3-car wedge) is poorly defined and misunderstood by as many LEOs as by everyone else.

Weigh station rules are state by state and are as much for road taxes as anything else. You will probably have to research each state individually.

Simple answer is if you are intending to make $0.01, you need a CDL. Doesn't matter if you do or not, it's all intent.

As soon as you say you're "for profit", you are in the tractor trailer realm and all those rules apply. Now if you are under 26k total(!), there is wiggle room in the law kind of. It's all in how you handle the "officer" on your roadside check.

My big thing is if you can keep off the interstates, you will have less hassle, IMO. And know your home state rules and all the states you will pass through. If there is a problem, always state your on compliance with the lesser rule.

Just my plugged nickle for now.

I agree that earning $0.01 on a trailer weighing more than 10,000 lbs is the real issue,

I disagree with staying on the small roads. These small roads are usually crawling with DOT enforcement looking for "trucks" running "overweight" or generally avoiding the scales on the bigger road.
An Ohio example is the Ohio Turnpike weighs everything that enters. The lesser roads that parallel The Turpike; Route 20, Route 224 and Route 2 are crawling with DOT enforcement.

In Ohio, the guys are called Motor Carrier Enforcement.

Why not just get the CDL?

SVreX wrote: Why not just get the CDL?

I need a driver out his way (about an hour from me) so I an crafting an email to him now.
I'll cc it to you as well.

Class A is not too hard to get

by no means am i trying to get out of getting a CDL, there is a truck driving school near me if necessary. right now i'm in the business of wrapping my head around all the thinking time i had while driving back from florida, and how good my knees felt down there and how bad they feel up here from october-march.

got your email john, it's not the thing for me but i'm going to have my wife call you as she's been talking about something like that for quite some time.

IIRC the thing with commercial vehicles is there is a 150mi radius where you can get into deep doo-doo. Like, you don't need the logbooks/etc for a local landscaping firm, but take the rig out to a relative's place for "profit" the next state over and you can get cited. "Profit" doesn't have to mean money, it can be favors owed. (Not sure if dinner counts)

I've also heard of rally drivers caught out entering certain states where they didn't stop at weigh stations and the patrols refused to believe that they weren't commercial.

The best way to do it is to get the CDL, and keep a log. No one has ever been ticketed for being too through, but small towns especially like to crack down on those guys because many ran without proper insurance. I looked into one of those trucks to do auction work when I was towing. The guys that had everything in order were never the guys that complained about being hassled by the man. Wether transporting the cars is your business or reselling them is the business you are still viewed as a commercial enterprise and the potential for mind blowing fines is there.

I would get the CDL. It will make things easier when going over state lines and rules on 3 car haulers may change from state to state. FYI, my first real driving job was hauling cars using one of those trailers but I haven't driven in 8 years and haven't worked in trucking for over 5 years but spent about 25 years overall in the industry.

I just asked my friend who tows his Jeeps with a dually and a 3 car wedge trailer. He said that he has never had a problem, and he's towed from Ohio to Canada to New Mexico and all points in between.

BTW, it's for sale @ $4200...central Ohio if anyone wants to buy it.

JFX001 wrote: I just asked my friend who tows his Jeeps with a dually and a 3 car wedge trailer. He said that he has never been caught, and he's towed from Ohio to Canada to New Mexico and all points in between.

Fixed that for you.

JFX001 wrote: I just asked my friend who tows his Jeeps..

If they are his Jeeps (and he is not making money) there is nothing wrong with it.
Start charging to haul other people's Jeeps or make it provable that he is selling a certain number of these Jeeps at a profit (business of selling Jeeps) then it changes.

Keep the combined weight of the trailer to less than 10k lbs and you can get around the laws as well. This means that you can likely haul 2 Jeeps which are not yours and you make money on but hauling 3 Jeeps will get you overweight and into the realm of CDL and its big fines.

JohnRW1621 wrote:

SVreX wrote: Why not just get the CDL?

I need a driver out his way (about an hour from me) so I an crafting an email to him now. I'll cc it to you as well.

I emailed you.

Hey, I'm just reporting back what he said based on the information given in the first sentence.

SVreX wrote:

JohnRW1621 wrote:

SVreX wrote: Why not just get the CDL?

I need a driver out his way (about an hour from me) so I an crafting an email to him now. I'll cc it to you as well.

I emailed you.

I replied. My answers were:

1) Yes.
2) Sorry to hear but not unexpected.
3) What 'cha got?

In reply to JohnRW1621:

A customer has a lady that left go haul new trailers from Elkhart, IN to every part of the USA. She said she was under DOT regulations and could only run 11 (??) hours before a rest. Then they remove the magnetic signs and drive home full blast as long as they want.

more question:

does one need to actually take the $2,000+ course, or can you get your learning permit, study the book, practice your pre trip inspection and driving, and go pass?

i read 6 pages into the 40+ page ohio CDL handbook and did pretty well on the practice tests that i took for the heck of it. the book pretty much tells you everything that's going to potentially be on the test, that you need to do a correct pre-trip inspection and answer why you're checking certain things, and it has a lot maneuverability test and an on road test.

I got my class A CDL without going to a school. You have to have a class A licensed driver with you in the truck if you are driving. It's not that hard if you have access to a vehicle. In TN they were very particular about the condition of the truck and trailer. I had to reschedule the test 4 times at the Knoxville locational because every time I went they found something different they didn't like and refused to test me. Eventually just went to the testing station in Johnson City and had no problems.

If you don't have access to a truck most schools will rent one out to take you for the road test without doing the whole class. We did that for my brother to get his license. I think they took him for an hour to get comfortable with the truck and then went to the road test.

They are ball busters with the inspections. When transit took us to get our passenger endorsements one of the buses had a marker light go out during they day and the tester made us get a truck out to fix it before anyone else could be tested.

Without having access to a truck, what do you think the cheapest someone could get a CDL would be?

My local Vo-Tech offers a CDL-A training course but I think its like $3500.

Ranger50 wrote: Simple answer is if you are intending to make $0.01, you need a CDL. Doesn't matter if you do or not, it's all intent.

prima facia~

patgizz wrote: is a 90's chevy 6.5 turbo crew cab dually(i've found a 96 for cheap because it's the truck of many colors) up to this task

Its not rated for it, if that is what you mean. Two vehicles, at 3500lbs each, will require a trailer that weighs pretty close to 3000lbs (steel or aluminum, doesn't matter). So you are looking at towing a minimum of 10,500lbs (and it'll probably be more than that).

6.5TD anything is rarely rated to tow that much:

http://www.trailerlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Trailer-Life-Towing-Guide-1999.pdf

The 1999 3500 is still the GMT400 series. You need a chassis cab model to get anywhere close to how much weight you want to tow. Also note, once doing this as a business, you MUST stay within the manufacturers guidelines.

You'll actually be SURPRISED at how LOW tow ratings are for even diesel pickups in the 90's. Manufacturers base it more on rear gear and chassis design.

The best pickup bang for the buck I could find was a 2007.5 GMT900 GMC 2500hd. For $6k, it has the 6.0L, 4.10's, and a 6 speed auto and will tow 12.5k lbs.