Change your damn oil!!

fasted58 wrote: engine sludge? Toyota comes to mind, I dunno, just a wild guess

No, not Toyota! No way, never .Haven't you read the reports about how well built and reliable they are?

BTW, that was sarcasm.

But seriously, if it was sludged up that badly you need to check the operation of the CCV system ASAP.

failboat wrote: our brand new ford says right there in the owners manual 10k mile oil change intervals. seems a bit...high. having it changed at the dealership (a couple free oil changes), i have my doubts they are actually putting synthetic in there.... but we have been doing the 10k changes anyways out of convenience. or inconvenience. I guess at most I am comfortable with 7k miles on synthetic, after that..seems like you are pushing it. i have no personal horror stories to back that up, I pretty much just picked a number I am comfortable with.

I do 10000 mile intervals with full synthetic Castrol. No oil problems. It comes out dirty, but no clumps. Runny as could be. 5-30 in the Zetec, 5-20 in the Duratec.

There's been a movement since the early '90's to stretch or eliminate service intervals because the consumer has told the marketing weenies the last thing they want to do is have their car serviced. That's where all these 7,500 and 10,000 mile oil change intervals came from. The marketing weenies told the engineers to make sure they could stretch the intervals, the engineers rolled their eyes and said 'oh boy'. But of course the marketing weenies won.

Since the average non-car goober is a cheapass they are going to push it as far as they can so the 7,500 becomes 8,500 and now there is a problem. Seen it too many times to count.

EDIT: All the talk about Toyota sludging? Look into the problems Mercedes had with the same thing. I'd say the Germans can't warp the laws of physics any more than the Japanese.

fasted58 wrote: engine sludge? Toyota comes to mind, I dunno, just a wild guess

Yeah. Corolla or Camry was my first guess. And yes, I am aware that other manufacturers have had similar problems, but corollas and Camrys are pretty freakin common. Guy I worked with (rolla) and next door neighbor (avalon) each had engines replaced at about 120k. Both were religious with oil changes.

Curmudgeon wrote: There's been a movement since the early '90's to stretch or eliminate service intervals because the consumer has told the marketing weenies the last thing they want to do is have their car serviced. That's where all these 7,500 and 10,000 mile oil change intervals came from. The marketing weenies told the engineers to make sure they could stretch the intervals, the engineers rolled their eyes and said 'oh boy'. But of course the marketing weenies won. Since the average non-car goober is a cheapass they are going to push it as far as they can so the 7,500 becomes 8,500 and now there is a problem. Seen it too many times to count.

yes.. because we all want to abuse the second most expensive thing people buy

In reply to Curmudgeon:

FWIW, the drive for higher and higher oil change intervals started in Europe.

And it doesn't help the short change argument when modern cars now burn less than a quart per 10k (and are generally closer to 1qt./ 15-20k miles.). So if the oil is still in good shape, it will be there.

a lot of newer cars have a "oil life" system that tells you when the oil needs changed. In out GMC, thats been anywhere from about 4k miles to about nearly 9. I figure, as long as I keep changing it when the car tells me to, and that Im getting it changed at the stealership while the warranty is intact, that if a sludge issue pops up, the warranty should cover it.

For my 160k daily, Ive started a routine where at 3k miles, I change the filter, and top off whatever oil was in it. again at 4500 - filter and top off. At 6k, new oil and new filter. Since I only put about 40 miles a day on the daily, about 5 days a week, that breaks out to about every 5 or 6 months actually buying new oil. Part of the training I got at the quicklube place was about the way oil breaks down and ends up contaminated. They basically told us that the oil is usually fine at about 3k, but that the filter is pretty well plugged, and the bypass is likely open, so the oil really isnt getting filtered anymore, so the oil is acumulating gunk, but if the gunk werent there, it would be fine. A new filter will wash out that gunk for about another thousand. the oil is really good for closer to 10k miles under normal conditions, it just becomes difficult to manage the crap that ends up in it.

I change every 5k, no matter what. The Taurus gets Motorcraft semi-synthetic 5w20, the truck gets Mobil 1 5w30, because turbochargers. Both get Motorcraft filters. I figure I'm safe.

BMWs 15k mile changes are, when combined with some dubious choices in the design of the CCV, apparently responsible for a whole host of sludge problems. Every BMW tech I've talked to says 5k-7.5k on good synthetic is about as far as they like to go to keep things clean, and that's assuming the CCV is working perfectly (I have my doubts that it's working perfectly even when it WAD, but that's another story...).

I have been changing the oil in our cars at 5K intervals. I am old so its easy for me to remember when to do it and it is less than what the book says to it.

I've gone 10k miles on my escort delivering pizzas again and again. No problems ever. Over 200k miles on it now.

Joey

I once drove a Camaro 22k with just 7500 mile filter changes and top ups with Mobil1 10-40. It was nice and clean the whole time. Blackstone agreed.

That car you just worked must never, ever have had an oil change.

I bought a FWD V8 caddy like that once back when I was a bright eyed and bushy tailed youth. Oil pan full of thick goo. The ATF trick worked nicely to uncover a loud bearing knock. It is these little life lessons that make me the saavy used car buyer I am today(read: ruthless prick who always assumes he is being lied to).

4cylndrfury wrote: a lot of newer cars have a "oil life" system that tells you when the oil needs changed. In out GMC, thats been anywhere from about 4k miles to about nearly 9.

It's not out of the ordinary to go 20,000 km on my truck on an oil change. With modern materials, tight tolerances, electronic engine management, and the quality of today's oils, I don't see anything wrong with that.

Tom_Spangler wrote: I change every 5k, no matter what. The Taurus gets Motorcraft semi-synthetic 5w20, the truck gets Mobil 1 5w30, because turbochargers. Both get Motorcraft filters. I figure I'm safe.

Same here, my truck get's Mobil 1 semi-syn every 5k.

I only use Mobil 1 full synthetic (yeah, I know it's not as good as it used to be) and change the filter and top off at 5k, and full oil and filter change at 10k. The engine still looks nice and shiny inside and I've never had a bit of sludge come out.

I regularly go 15k miles on synthetic....sometimes on conventional as well. Never seen an issue like the OP outlined. Something was up with this car.

I have, too many times, seen people try to push the intervals because they did not want to spend the time or $ to get their car serviced and had it bite them hard. Under perfect conditions a engine may not use oil, but a little known fact is that most mfgs allow 1k miles/quart as normal consumption. (Ford's spec used to be 750 miles/quart.) I'm not planning to get into a pissing contest as to the whys and wherefores, just accept that it is so.

Copied and pasted:

NORMAL OIL CONSUMPTION: Below are industry standards for normal engine oil consumption: Mileage below 50,000: Normal oil consumption is one quart for each 1,000 miles driven. Mileage above 50,000: Normal oil consumption is one quart for each 750 miles driven.

The average engine holds ~5 quarts of oil, I leave it to y'all to do the math. As the oil gets older, it is more likely to be burned off. When you combine these with extending the oil change interval, yes it is very possible to fry an engine.

It is the owners' responsibility to maintain the vehicle's fluid levels in the correct ranges to prevent damage, that is why there are oil lights, maintenance reminders, dipsticks etc.

Since expensive oil is cheaper than a cheap engine I tend to err on the side of caution.

Yeah I can't believe it would turn to jelly even after 15k, I figure it would take at least 30k for that to happen. And I'm surprised it got any oil pressure like that too.

I agree there's more than meets the eye here.

Either it's an engine that's highly prone to sludging, a broken odometer, or something other than oil poured into the crankcase.

Even on the crappiest WalMart oil, I can't see most engines gooping up that badly in 15k.

FWIW, I run Mobil1EP for 10k in my Scion. It always comes out still looking fairly decent. And I live in a desert.

I once saw a Kia Rio with 9,000 miles with a complaint of engine rattle. The oil had not been changed.

The oil at the bottom of the pan looked like chocolate pudding, when the drain plug was removed you could see the stuff but it wouldn't come out. The tech poked it with a screwdriver and it started dripping, similar to the OP's story. Rinsed it out with diesel fuel (since it has some slight lubricating properties), replaced the (clogged) filter and added oil to level, crossed our fingers and fired it up. It rattled like hell for about 5 minutes, then quieted down. Changed it again, the motor sounded good. Put a BIG disclaimer on the RO and the woman left, pissed that she had to pay for something when her car was 'under bumper to bumper warranty'.

Another Rio was towed in with ~31k miles, same basic story except this one had seized. Two different cars of the same year model operated in the same general geographic area, both with ~zero~ maintenance yet two vastly different outcomes where 'survival' mileage is concerned.

That tells me the oil change interval in the manual is like the old saying goes: 'trust, but verify'.

EvanR wrote: I agree there's more than meets the eye here. Either it's an engine that's highly prone to sludging, a broken odometer, or something other than oil poured into the crankcase. Even on the crappiest WalMart oil, I can't see most engines gooping up that badly in 15k. FWIW, I run Mobil1EP for 10k in my Scion. It always comes out still looking fairly decent. And I live in a desert.

Believe it or not, the company I work for did some testing of motor oils an the non synthetic walmart oil tested better than all the rest, except for non synthetic Mobil. (all the other oils were non synthetic as well)

Joey

My Forester XT's manual says to do 5k oil changes, but a factory revision states that 3750 is the maximum oil life in the car. I've been making a note to change it more often than that using full synthetic. Luckily, I don't drive very far, so it is working out about every 3 months or so.

The 2011 Mazda 6 says 5k miles for severe duty. We changed the oil closer to 4 and it is due again. Since we plan on keeping it forever, we're going to err on the side of caution.

I change the oil in my Dakota when I feel like it. It could be 2k miles or 7k. Everything else that runs the road has OLM on them. when they hit about 15% left, I start looking for a day to change it.

EvanR wrote: Even on the crappiest WalMart oil, I can't see most engines gooping up that badly in 15k.

From what I've read, Walmart uses quality suppliers and product for their house brand lubricants.

I ran Walmart oil in a race car for a full season once - and won the bet

I used WalMart synthetic in my SAAB for a couple of years with no issues. Its not like the Mart manufactures the stuff, they buy it from someone that already makes oil.