Charleston.

alfadriver wrote:

Fueled by Caffeine wrote: http://www.live5news.com/story/29360730/charleston-church-shooting-suspect-confessed-wanted-to-start-race-war It is times like these that I wish our justice system was more like singapore's. You screw up. We execute you in 30 days no appeal after appeal. You mess up in singapore and justice is swift. No messing around.

With incredible grace, the victims families offer a rather significant counterpoint to your fury by forgiving the shooter- http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/19/us/charleston-church-shooting-main/ I heard some of them on NPR yesterday. Sad, but very powerful. Where the shooter wanted to start a race war, the families diffused that rather bluntly.

I lived in chalreston for 4-5 years some time ago. I am not surprised by grace and love that the city is displaying publicaly. It's an amazing place full of wonderful people. I am proud to say I once lived there based upon the actions of all those who I know still live there. I don't think one point is exclusive of the other. We can forgive the person but not the act. And for the act the person must be punished.

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine:

Never thought of it that way.

"We can forgive the person but not the act. And for the act the person must be punished."

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine:

But punishing the person should not be a 30 day quick death. We are not in Singapore. The system will work in due time, and it's not like this guy is going anywhere. Could be more of a punishment to let him live in isolation but show him that his deed was utterly useless.

Looks like he put a website up with his manifesto and plans before carrying out the killings (hello, NSA?):

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/20/us/charleston-church-shooting-main/index.html

It looks like all it took was one Google search to flip a switch in this guy's head into the "murder" position.

alfadriver wrote: In reply to Fueled by Caffeine: But punishing the person should not be a 30 day quick death. We are not in Singapore. The system will work in due time, and it's not like this guy is going anywhere. Could be more of a punishment to let him live in isolation but show him that his deed was utterly useless.

I think he should sit in solitary confinement with a monitor in the cell showing videos of people of all races working together to clean up and repair the damage he has done to prepare the church for an interracial marriage where everyone comes together and laughs, and cries, and hugs, and sings, and dances. He should have to watch a press release as the mayor delivers a speach on how the hate, racism, and violence that was part of the past in South Caroline does not define its future before lowering the confederate flag from outside the statehouse and burying it in the ground forever.

At no point should his name or existence be mentioned or alluded to.

alfadriver wrote: In reply to Fueled by Caffeine: But punishing the person should not be a 30 day quick death.

Get caught with illegal drugs in singapore or bring them in instant death in singapore. It actually says so on the back of the landing card. Great place full of wonderful people... Been there many times on business. Unbelievably safe. My brother in law had a child there and I know many expats. Tried to get an expat role there, but didn;t work out.

In reply to Beer Baron:

At no point should his name or existence be mentioned or alluded to.

I've thought for awhile that this could be a key to reducing the incidence of mass murder/terrorism.
An extreme example is the little piece of excrement who did the Chardon, OH shootings - he's repeatedly mocked the families of the victims, on national TV.

GameboyRMH wrote: Looks like he put a website up with his manifesto and plans before carrying out the killings (hello, NSA?): http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/20/us/charleston-church-shooting-main/index.html It looks like all it took was one Google search to flip a switch in this guy's head into the "murder" position.

CNN is sure working overtime in that video to explain, "This MAY not be written by Dylann Roof, we are not SAYING he wrote it, it's not CONFIRMED..."

But then they put his picture and name on the screen directly next to the written quotes from the manifesto.

Cone_Junkie wrote:

SVreX wrote: The pastor, Rev Clementa Pickney was one of the victims. He was a SC State Senator. Heartbreaking.

All 9 of the victims were human. Heartbreaking

Yep. Male, female, black, white, gay, straight, Republican, Democrat, rich, poor, whatever, whatever, at the end of the day, we're all part of the human race.

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine:

Sorry, dude, it's not about safety, it's about liberty. No justice system is 100% correct, and with the recent trend of mistakes that may very well lead to a suspension of the death sentence, no way would I want that fast justice. I'm not a fan of executing people when they are innocent.

This guy may admit what he's doing, but that does not mean he should be taken care of in 30 days.

If you want fast justice for your safety, move to Singapore.

alfadriver wrote: In reply to Fueled by Caffeine: If you want fast justice for your safety, move to Singapore.

And 18 year old Malay chicks. All day long. That's my nice way of saying conversation over.

In reply to alfadriver:

Ahhh, Malaysia...... A hotbed of tolerance[Sarcasm]

Definitely not a very good example Fueled.

Last time they were in the news for something other than a missing airplane, it was for throwing people in jail for showing support for anyone other than Palestinians last time they acted up.

David S. Wallens wrote:

Cone_Junkie wrote:

SVreX wrote: The pastor, Rev Clementa Pickney was one of the victims. He was a SC State Senator. Heartbreaking.

All 9 of the victims were human. Heartbreaking

Yep. Male, female, black, white, gay, straight, Republican, Democrat, rich, poor, whatever, whatever, at the end of the day, we're all part of the human race.

I wasn't elevating his status as a human.

I was simply recognizing that it was going to impact a lot of people.

Regardless of what you think about the church, a pastor being murdered is a heavy toll, and it would be much heavier in a black church. It's a cultural thing. I've spent a of of time in black churches, and the loyalty to their pastors is very strong.

I was recognizing the hurting people around him, not singling him out for specialness.

On the topic of Singapore: IMO it's just another oppressive dictatorship (maybe not for much longer since he died a while back and his cronies have taken the reigns) that only gets nods of approval from the rest of the world because it's a very profitable place to do business. Yes it's "safe" and clean...and Mussolini made the trains run on time. I'd never go there.

Tonight's unity walk across the ravenel bridge, simply amazing. Great job charleston.

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine:

Charleston has more class than other areas. Really, the only place I've been in SC that seemed to lack class was Myrtle Beach.......cesspool of idk what there.

yamaha wrote: In reply to Fueled by Caffeine: Charleston has more class than other areas. Really, the only place I've been in SC that seemed to lack class was Myrtle Beach.......cesspool of idk what there.

Born and raised here. SC is not without its problems, believe me. But we aren't what the rest of the planet likes to joke about; if there's one good thing that's come out of this terrible situation it's that we can show the rest of the planet what we are really like. Ferguson, Baltimore... hope you are taking notes.

Curmudgeon wrote:

yamaha wrote: In reply to Fueled by Caffeine: Charleston has more class than other areas. Really, the only place I've been in SC that seemed to lack class was Myrtle Beach.......cesspool of idk what there.

Born and raised here. SC is not without its problems, believe me. But we aren't what the rest of the planet likes to joke about; if there's one good thing that's come out of this terrible situation it's that we can show the rest of the planet what we are really like. Ferguson, Baltimore... hope you are taking notes.

Yes, sc sure has a strong sense of community. That's one thing my wife and I are missing in seattle. Bout time for another move through. Every 3 years is about my current pace.

And Mike, yup. Every part of the country has its problems. It's how you deal with them that matters.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/22/stephen-colbert-charleston_n_7636590.html?utm_hp_ref=tv&ir=TV

local boy joins in.

In reply to Curmudgeon:

If it weren't for the tuition cost, I probably would have gone to school at Clemson. I love that campus, love Spartanburg, Greenville, Columbia, and Charleston. Great cities that don't feel like cities to me, which is good because I think cities are the devil.

yamaha wrote: In reply to Curmudgeon: If it weren't for the tuition cost, I probably would have gone to school at Clemson. I love that campus, love Spartanburg, Greenville, Columbia, and Charleston. Great cities that don't feel like cities to me, which is good because I think cities are the devil.

Greenville/spartanburg are very difffernent from Charleston. While charleston is shunning technology and manufacturing... The others are not.

Shunning technology and manufacturing?? You know about Boeing and Volvo right?

spitfirebill wrote: Shunning technology and manufacturing?? You know about Boeing and Volvo right?

Yup.. Look around and you'll find that the locals really don't like the change. Talk to Charleston natives and you'll find they like the increase in property values, but do not want the development or factories.

Fueled by Caffeine wrote:

spitfirebill wrote: Shunning technology and manufacturing?? You know about Boeing and Volvo right?

Yup.. Look around and you'll find that the locals really don't like the change. Talk to Charleston natives and you'll find they like the increase in property values, but do not want the development or factories.

I'm sure everyone would like their property values to increase by sheer magic There are a lot of worse ways to receive gentrification than from blue-collar workers as well!

I cannot believe how much unity is being shown, even when faced with media pressure looking for the opposite. Hats off to these guys, and the whole city. A terrible tragedy, specifically designed to bring about further tragedy, and it's resulted in more oneness than we had before.