Cincinnati Zoo officials- I think they are heros.

Nick (LUCAS) Comstock wrote: I pulled a three year old out of a crocodile exhibit at the Jacksonville zoo. The mother and father were standing right there, their attention was on the older sibling and the kid crawled right in.

Thank you for taking the initiative and watching the children around you. Nobody has pointed any fingers at the dozen or more adults around who were busy videoing the child but didn't notice him crawling in where he should never have gone.

Too many these days seem to be afraid to even speak to another persons' child because of "stranger danger". Better to let little Timmy wander into traffic than be accused of touching a kid.

In reply to GameboyRMH:

Damn dude... you have far better memories of being 3 than I do. Which is hardly at all.

Michael MacIntyre - People without kids don't know.

JG Pasterjak wrote: Maybe the bigger issue we should be talking about is whether gorillas belong in Cincinnati.

I agree wholeheartedly. And while I do understand and agree that zoos do do some good in regards to endangered animal preservation, I feel that we don't need one in every city.

And now that this debacle is over, I hope that kid later goes on to find a cure for cancer, and I hope that mother thinks twice before taking on a task she herself described as something should could not be totally expected to do.

In reply to SVreX:

I agree, and again, I'm sorry for my rant last night. I kinda skimmed your post, and there were some important words ("first responder personnel" in particular) I missed before I made my angry ones. I'm sure at some point, it will happen. And since I'm not allowed to put a tracking chip in her, or a shock collar on her, I know it will happen. I was a terrible little E36 M3 as a kid, and fully expect the worst from my daughter. She is named Harleigh Quinn after all, I'm expecting trouble.

According to it's annual federal inspection though, the cage is fine for containing the gorilla and up to those standards. Current building and safety codes? No, nothing from that era is. But really, what are our options? Solid bubbles for the animals or for the people?

Unfortunately, to me, the family will probably have a law suit, much like the McDonalds coffee woman. "i didn't know coffee was hot" will turn into "I didn't know I couldn't watch 7 kids by myself, and it's your fault my kid fell" then probably years of trauma therapy and medications long after he forgets about it until the kid grows up and snaps, but that's getting off topic.

I think what's really been getting to me is how many zoo animals have been put down this year. Some in Europe for truly no good reason, which I'm really happy I didn't have social media for, and some that were warranted. Although I still think the drunk guy that tried to fight the lion or tiger or whatever got what he deserved.

Ian F wrote: In reply to GameboyRMH: Damn dude... you have far better memories of being 3 than I do. Which is hardly at all. Michael MacIntyre - People without kids don't know.

Holy crap that was funny! (though childless people will not get it at all!)

revrico wrote: According to it's annual federal inspection though, the cage is fine for **containing the gorilla** and up to those standards. Current building and safety codes? No, nothing from that era is. But really, what are our options? Solid bubbles for the animals or for the people?

There are some really simple solutions. A basic safety inspection would have revealed the guard rail was completely inadequate to protect anyone from a 15' fall. A federal animal management inspection is not a safety inspection. Any home inspector in the country could have done a decent job.

The moat keeps the gorilla in. A proper rail keeps the people out. Rails can be built in ways that enable decent viewing (they are built every day in museums, theme parks, zoos, etc.). Those rails as built have not been legal for over 20 years.

The zoo should self-inspect for safety, and hire a qualified 3rd party safety inspector periodically. I'd say once a week internally, and once a year 3rd party.

FWIW, it's given me some pretty good business lead ideas. (I do Home and Commercial Inspections).

Jerry wrote: That said, mom should be liable. If that kid knocked a $20 plate over in the gift shop and broke it, I'll bet she would be expected to pay. What do you think the street value is for a 17 yr old endangered primate in a large public zoo?

Maybe as compensation for the loss of a perfectly serviceable gorilla, the zoo should be allowed to tag the little boy so they can see how he's doing fifteen or twenty years down the road.

KyAllroad wrote: Too many these days seem to be afraid to even speak to another persons' child because of "stranger danger". Better to let little Timmy wander into traffic than be accused of touching a kid.

Honestly, I don't even like to be around children anymore because of just this. Never mind mommy is standing on the sidewalk faceplacing on her phone, she just hears the kid yelp when yanked back onto the sidewalk, and boom, you're hurting or trying to abduct a child even though not a foot away is a city bus or a semi truck that could have turned little timmy into a pancake. Better off having serial killer on your resume than anything at all related to children.

At Svrex

I used to build office buildings, the most safety I needed to worry about was the wonderful world of ADA compliant railings and ramps. Our building inspectors were decent, it was the fire inspector I always needed to please, so people blocking was never a high priority to learn about/work with.

My local zoos have gone to large, supposedly bullet proof, glass to keep everything separated. Easy to see, leaves the animals places to hide though, which is where the curious kids get into trouble.

GameboyRMH wrote: Yeah I'm serious. 3 is plenty old enough to know better than to do borderline-suicidal things like that. Is it really just me?

I used to babysit for a girl next door. She's currently got a 4.0 in pre-med at Tulane. I distinctly remember her jumping from a table to the couch, which was not allowed, so I told her not to. Then she got on the counter near the couch and jumped, and found out that was more fun! Also not allowed. I went to get her crying baby sister (literally just turned my back) and this girl was trying to climb the "outside" of the stairs through the banister to jump onto the couch. Very smart thinking on her part--jumping from a table to the couch was fun, from the counter to the couch was even more fun, so from a higher place, it would be the most fun!

Getting hurt didn't occur to her. And while you seem to have been a particularly gifted 3 year old, I'm really guessing that you had your fair share of almost killing yourself moments that you never realized.

Keep in mind that Cincinnati has a captive breeding program. While it is sad that they removed a gorilla from the world, they have also added 45 times more than than to the world.

SVreX wrote:

Ian F wrote: In reply to GameboyRMH: Damn dude... you have far better memories of being 3 than I do. Which is hardly at all. Michael MacIntyre - People without kids don't know.

Holy crap that was funny! (though childless people will not get it at all!)

I think anyone who didn't have their memories erased before being dumped into a child-free environment like those teens from the Maze Runner will get it...I laughed pretty hard at it, at least

mtn wrote: Getting hurt didn't occur to her. And while you seem to have been a particularly gifted 3 year old, I'm really guessing that you had your fair share of almost killing yourself moments that you never realized.

Actually no, if I did anything remotely dangerous my parents FREAKED and I wouldn't forget those episodes. Climbing onto the outside of a stairs bannister and the ensuing rescue operation, being somewhere near the rear end of a reversing car, and the time I was in a car that rolled into the street come to mind. The teenage girl I was in the car with said I released the handbrake when she was actually trying to drive the car and I had nothing to do with it. I got such a nasty grilling over that one that I must have blocked it from my memory. I vaguely remember the rolling incident but that's it.

I do remember the grilling I got when I found some "poison" (silica gel packets) and, exactly as instructed, showed it to my parents...by bringing the packets to them. Big mistake apparently. At that age it felt like I spent the day in Guantanamo being asked "WHY DID YOU TOUCH POISON!?!?"

Again, all stuff that happened by age 3.

This is sad all around, but I'm with most of the people here in that when you've got a 400 pound gorilla apehandling a kid, the right call to make was to shoot the gorilla before the kid got killed. You can sort out whose fault it is later (and the answer is probably "everybody's").

MrJoshua wrote: Yep-kids spend a large chunk of their childhood trying to die. The "haha I rolled my three wheeler so many times when I was a teenager" thread we just had is proof that most of us had very little understanding of risk as a teen. I doubt we knew much better as a toddler. My brain throws horrible visions of the worst possible outcome at me every time my kids play-it sucks but it makes me strict. Despite that, at 5 years old my son still sprinted away from me at the zoo and got all the way to the next observation deck before I could catch him.

Yes, this. If you think a three year old has any sense of risk, or of self preservation at all, you're disillusional.

In reply to revrico:

Those rails were not even ADA compliant (which is why I said they were illegal 20 years ago, and why the family could easily win a lawsuit). The child didn't have to climb OVER it- he could go THROUGH it.

Zoo officials were exceptional at animal management. Not so good at facility management. Completely negligent.

It's only safe until the power goes out. Then whatever is in there is coming for your babies.

How are we to evolve if we insist on interfering.

In reply to GameboyRMH:

Bummer dude... my parents were far more interested in smoking weed when I was 3 than paying attention to me. Nor when I was 4 and wandering around a black asp-infested side lot next to our apartment building in Okinawa...

KyAllroad wrote:

Nick (LUCAS) Comstock wrote: I pulled a three year old out of a crocodile exhibit at the Jacksonville zoo. The mother and father were standing right there, their attention was on the older sibling and the kid crawled right in.

Thank you for taking the initiative and watching the children around you. Nobody has pointed any fingers at the dozen or more adults around who were busy videoing the child but didn't notice him crawling in where he should never have gone. Too many these days seem to be afraid to even speak to another persons' child because of "stranger danger". Better to let little Timmy wander into traffic than be accused of touching a kid.

That thought never even occurred to me, by the time I saw him he was two steps away from the last little fence and was making a B-line straight to the water. My running got the parents attention and the dad was halfway to us when I picked him up.

"Most People Commenting Online about Gorilla Incident have Extensive Personal Experience with 400 lb Gorillas"

Animal lovers.. please place displaced anger here.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/dozens-dead-cubs-discovered-freezer-tiger-temple-article-1.2656741

I have a theory we are all born geniuses, but our intelligence is lowered every time our parents let us bump our heads. So I yell "b-student!" Whenever my nephew bonks his head.

Joey

mtn wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote: Yeah I'm serious. 3 is plenty old enough to know better than to do borderline-suicidal things like that. Is it really just me?

I used to babysit for a girl next door. She's currently got a 4.0 in pre-med at Tulane. I distinctly remember her jumping from a table to the couch, which was not allowed, so I told her not to. Then she got on the counter near the couch and jumped, and found out that was more fun! Also not allowed. I went to get her crying baby sister (literally just turned my back) and this girl was trying to climb the "outside" of the stairs through the banister to jump onto the couch. Very smart thinking on her part--jumping from a table to the couch was fun, from the counter to the couch was even more fun, so from a higher place, it would be the most fun! Getting hurt didn't occur to her. And while you seem to have been a particularly gifted 3 year old, I'm really guessing that you had your fair share of almost killing yourself moments that you never realized.

This one strikes too close to home, since I almost was that kid. Many years ago, a prekindergarten me went to the Cincinnati Zoo, of all places. I managed to get away from my mom (5 kids probably didn't help her there) and past the first railing to stand immediately outside the Mandrille's cage, where I took up a detailed conversation (at least, in my understanding) with the beautiful painted-face creature therein. I mimicked him grunt for grunt and honestly thought we were communicating great right up until he exploded and the zookeeper zoomed in and grabbed me away from the violent animal that was suddenly all too close. Never forgot it.

The world today would rain censure down on me for baiting a rare creature and on my family for being incompetent losers, but back in the Sixties we just called it another Sunday and got on with it.

We need better things to do than to stand around judging each other.

Margie

I have no kids but I was/am one. I was a wanderer who frequently would get lost to the point that I was often on a leash. An actual dog leash or piece of clothesline since these little backpack things were invented. The worst for my parents was the time I was about 10 and got lost in Central Park following birds. They tried hard to break me and my brother and sister are both fine and obedient but I was terribly curious and oblivious to danger. I still probably don't have a proper respect for injury and death and could accidently wander into a gorilla pen without realizing it. I think that while done of it is the parent's doing some of it is just natural and can't be completely stopped.

In reply to Marjorie Suddard:

A Mandrille is kind of like a gorilla with an orange ass and dork, right?