Cities that AREN'T NYC/Chicago/San Fran, that have a great public transportation infrastructure.

mndsm wrote: In reply to Beer Baron: Flat earth in St Paul.

Aha. I'll stop asking you questions about Troegs then.

Well, I'll come out to visit next time I'm our in MN. I need to go visit my buddies at Schell's sometime.

PHeller, as mentioned the problem with my job is small towns typically don't have a lot of jobs for what I do. I need Tech/Manufacturing/Engineering places to work.

ProDarwin, my goal would be to not end up in this type of situation again, hence the desire for a bigger metro area with more companies. I have a relatively niche job and even though I would happily consider other positions a hiring manager thought my skills would cross-over too, I don't think there are many of those either.

szeis4cookie, I would consider NC, really probable the only part of the East Coast I'd want to handle. For some reason when I think of the "triangle" I think of the DC/Virginia/Maryland area (and all the gov't/defense/supporting jobs) since I used to work for a defense company.

yamaha, definitely not about trying to pick up bar skanks, couldn't be further from my mind. The vast majority of my friends are all in the restaurant/bar industry (they tend to be the type of people I get along with). I'd probably go that route if I didn't want the higher pay and benefits to fund my hobbies.

Aint nothing wrong with having a good time, especially if that good time is beautiful and without sexually transmitted diseases.

In reply to Wally:

Don't knock it till you've tried it.

I lived in NYC for 4 years. I am married to a New York City girl. I was sharing my own experiences (with a touch of sarcasm). The point was the NYC system is functional, but unpleasant. Neither my wife nor I ever felt safe.

I've camped on the Chatooga. Don't worry- your little piggy buns are perfectly safe. That was just a movie.

Hey, I completely get it. Some folks like cities. I've had both, and am much better off financially making less, with lower expenses. I am never lacking for something to do.

But it's not the choice for everyone.

I agree with SVreX, only I'd go a step further. To me cities are things to be avoided at all costs. I can't really help with your question except the traffic in cities I've had to drive in for work.

The town I live in now has a little over 66k people, and that's about 65k more than I'm comfortable with, but, my wife likes being close to things so we compromise.

Having said that, Chattanooga is a neat town, smaller than what you want I think, but they just got a VW plant and there is some manufacturing close.

SVreX, how long has it been since you've been there? I was there in 06 and in 12 and wasn't worried, than again I wasn't trying to go to Harlem at 1am.

66k people? Yike, I can't even imagine. That's barely bigger than the college town where I went to school, Stillwater, OK.

I like a few cities in 50-100k range, within maybe an 45 minutes of eachother.

Flagstaff is around 60k, but nearest other city is 2 hours.

Pittsburgh is more like a bunch of closely located smaller cities, Philadelphia is like one big suburban area. Vermont has a nice density. Lots of small, compact cities that are about 45 minutes away from one another.

My stomping ground of south eastern PA is kinda like that. A bunch of cities all with populations of around 100k, with metro areas near a million, all about 45 minutes away from one another. The downside is that you've got to drive 3 hours to get away from all of that.

Here in Flagstaff you can be in the middle of no-where in 20 minutes.

The Front-Range of Colorado is like that, but a to large extent. Traffic and people and development and jobs are a stones throw away from wide open spaces.

Maniac, you should take a road trip to visit prospective new places.

Don't have the time or money. I can't be blowing my severance pay (meant to get me by) on road trips and not looking for another position.

Beer Baron wrote:

mndsm wrote: In reply to Beer Baron: Flat earth in St Paul.

Aha. I'll stop asking you questions about Troegs then. Well, I'll come out to visit next time I'm our in MN. I need to go visit my buddies at Schell's sometime.

We're open 7 days a week now, and our brew master is originally from PA. We're actually in the old hamms site, so its super cool. And really berkeleying scary in parts.

In reply to SVreX:

It's nothing like it was 20 years ago. I can't tell you the last time I was concerned for my safety. It's interesting the changes in some areas that were always rough neighborhoods.

I still wouldn't recommend moving here unless someone was giving you big piles of money, but for transportation you won't find a better system in the US. The only reasons I'm staying are because the wife needs the health insurance and I owe too much to ever sell my house.

In reply to z31maniac:

Have you thought about Tokyo?

It has been a long time since I've used public transport in NYC. Glad to hear things have improved.

As a person who was born and raised in the Metro NYC area, I will add that it is really hard to believe it has improved to the point that it can even be considered in a similar league as ATL. They were simply complete opposite extremes.

If you haven't lived in both places, it's really hard to compare.

Kind of like a Northerner's perspective on rust in cars. I remember when "rust free" meant there was enough Bondo to look pretty good from 20', and nothing structural was completely rotted through. To a Southerner, it's so hard to imagine anything 20 years old having a bit of surface oxidation, that they don't even use the phrase "rust free". It doesn't have a meaning.

It's just a different frame of reference.

PHeller wrote: The Front-Range of Colorado is like that, but a to large extent. Traffic and people and development and jobs are a stones throw away from wide open spaces.

The downside to that is the weekly traffic jam - Friday night going into the mountains, Sunday afternoon coming out. I'm always going the other way and the Sunday jam is wicked. Literally 40-50 miles of stopped traffic.

I do enjoy the characterization of anything under a half million being a small town. I would have aimed a little lower, a half million is still a pretty high concentration of people.

Cities that get snow are able to deal with snow without a problem, but cold is cold. Good insulation and good heating makes up for most of it when you're inside, but you do have to leave occasionally. I love it, but my wife wouldn't leave the house from November to March if we moved to Ottawa.

As for NYC - I grew up in a very safe city. Well, apparently a small town as I think it was less than a million I went to visit NYC last year and wandered all over the place with some locals. It did not come across as a sketchy place at all. Gentrification has hit some areas like a sledgehammer.

I used that reference as "small town" based on the typical amount of jobs for what I'm looking for. Maybe it's because I'm from here and know my way around, but the metro area of 1 million people doesn't feel "big" to me (possibly because it's so spread out). Like SVreX said, all in frame of reference I guess.

Applied for a few more jobs yesterday, one in Englewood, CO and one in Grapevine, TX. Already applied for basically everything available in OK.

I'm hoping for the PNW or Nashville since I already have a few friends in both places, but I suspect based on the number of opportunities I'm seeing, my search is going to start focusing on Dallas/Ft. Worth and Denver.

In reply to z31maniac:

Ugh, I despise Dallas. My old job offered me a position in Dallas, I gladly took a six dollar an hour pay cut, starting over in an entirely new field, to be able to stay where I am. Dallas traffic is terrible too, every time I've been there I've been stuck ten to fifteen minutes from my destination for almost an hour. After the third time it's not a coincidence or bad luck.

Nick_Comstock wrote: In reply to z31maniac: Ugh, I despise Dallas. My old job offered me a position in Dallas, I gladly took a six dollar an hour pay cut, starting over in an entirely new field, to be able to stay where I am. Dallas traffic is terrible too, every time I've been there I've been stuck an hour from my destination for almost an hour. After the third time it's not a coincidence or bad luck.

Fixed your post.

Nick_Comstock wrote: In reply to z31maniac: Ugh, I despise Dallas. My old job offered me a position in Dallas, I gladly took a six dollar an hour pay cut, starting over in an entirely new field, to be able to stay where I am. Dallas traffic is terrible too, every time I've been there I've been stuck ten to fifteen minutes from my destination for almost an hour. After the third time it's not a coincidence or bad luck.

Possibly, but for what I do with my level of experience the salaries start looking very good.

Like closer to 100k than 50k.

Raleigh? One of my favorite cities on the east coast. A friend of mine is a tech writer over there.

^Maybe? I'm open to most options right now, I know there are a ton of jobs around the Detroit area for what I do, but the salt/winter is a big turnoff.

If you wouldn't mind asking him some recruiters to work with or if there is anything in his company, I would be forever in your debt!

Check out Durham, NC. There are multiple nearby universities, so the place feels alive. The tech concentration is good for the job opportunity aspect.

I haven't lived there* so truthfully, I have no idea about public transit, but one thing that surprised me when I flew in for a job interview back in 2010 - was several interstate ramps in the middle of the city still end at a stop sign. That surprised me.

Appalachian mountains are close. There is an ocean a half day away. It didn't seem terribly congested to me (compared with Tampa and Atlanta, not much will).

*I've lived in OH SC RI CT FL GA (screen name comes from that journey).. all but OH since 1997. Positive and negative "people" aspects in every place. Positive and negative "surroundings" aspects in every place.

But change, in my experience, is worth it.

Good luck.

Nashville sounds like a good fit, Detroit would also fit except the Prolonged winters. When I worked in the loop I just bought a car specific for the winters. We called them "Chicago Cars" and they are very recognizable.

In reply to mtn: