College or not

Completely agree with the above two posts.

Long story short, my family kicked me out of the house...and college...when I was 19. Let's just say I wasn't the most well behaved teen. Anyhow, I moved in with friends and didn't go to college for a few years. When I was ready to go back, I started at community college. It was cheap, and the credits counted just like any other school. I then transferred to a large 4 year school and finished my education there. I did it through a combination of loans and grants.

I also agree that it's not just the classroom education that's important. It's the life skills you learn while in college that will prepare you for a job you may want. Time management, critical thinking, stress management, peer management, etc...

Kenny_McCormic wrote: In reply to Mitchell: It is impossible with our current understanding of space-time to work your way through school anymore. The costs are simply too high and wages too low. Somewhere in the realm of $5-10k per semester for full time tuition at a typical state school, plus books, parking etc. and then living expenses on top of that.

I graduated last year, so in some states, it is definitely possible. I lived in a borderline shanty for my last few years, but my share of rent was only 250/mo.

I think if I could do it over I would have gone for Civil Engineer Technology, Electro-Mechanical Technology, or Technology Education and minored in Geography so I could still pick up my GIS skills that I have now.

It seems that having Engineer anywhere in your education history, regardless of what specific field it is in, gets you in far more doors than without. I'm sure you could get into a marketing job with an engineering degree.

People wrongfully believe that engineers can solve any problem.

Statistically speaking your earning potential will grow if you pursue a degree. Health care has a lot of job opportunity, LPN & RN's can make decent money. It all depends on what you want to do, and if your not sure that is ok, sometimes going to college can help you figure out. I went to a Community College, I would caution you to take it with a grain of salt, and would use it as a stepping stone, to move on.

My advice, FWIW is that the military is the best deal going. Enlist, get training in all sorts of fields (even change every 3-4 years if you want to try different things), earn a lot of money for college when you get out, get free college classes while you're in, guaranteed paycheck for years, 20 year retirement so if one started at a young age they can start drawing a retirement check at 38 (!!!!) and go on to have another career. Double dipping is a wonderful thing if you can find a way to do it.

Were I young again I'd enlist in the Air Force and do my 20 as a biomedical tech. Earn my degree while I was in and start my second career before I turned 40.

Random semi-related question: Can folks who are in their late 20's early 30's start a career in paid Firefighting?

Heh, this is a double-edged topic for me: DD#1 graduated this spring, cum laude in the honors program, with a degree in... anthropology. Although grad school is almost definitely in the works, she starts night shift at the local Amazon distribution center some time next week.

That being said, Amazon will pay a decent amount of your tuition for education in particular fields where they see long-term employment prospects for people. These aren't even fields that benefit Amazon; they're just offered as a way to help you not have to work night shift at Amazon any more. I will look at that list and post what the fields are.

Duke wrote: Although grad school is almost definitely in the works, she starts night shift at the local Amazon distribution center some time next week.

Ouch...

I'll say +1 for engineering, maybe something related to robotics, perhaps the only industry I'm sure is going to see long-term growth.

Think about avoiding things that could fall prey to outsourcing or automation. You want to do the really tough creative/engineering work that computers won't be able to do for a while, and that can't be done remotely. Journalism is on the brink of being automated, although it helps that the journalists have sunk enough to meet the article-generating scripts half-way on this.

BTW, warehouse supervisor is not an automation-proof job. For example if you work in an Amazon distribution center, your boss is a computer.

Just like in the beginning of this sci-fi story.

GameboyRMH wrote:

Duke wrote: Although grad school is almost definitely in the works, she starts night shift at the local Amazon distribution center some time next week.

Ouch...

I'm OK with it. I told her going in to study something she was really interested in. She loves the field and she's cut out for academia. But she was a really good student for 16 years in a row, and if she wants to take a little break, I'm not going to tell her she needs to go for another 3-4 years without a break.

I made sure to warn her about the dangers of never going back, but she's cut out for academia. She'll find her way to grad school and a teaching / research career.

Duke wrote: Those who are calling college loans a scam do (of course) realize that college costs didn't really begin to seriously rise until after the government began subsidizing student loans, right? RIGHT?

That's why it's a scam. You are enslaving your future for basically nothing of value. Today, a 4 year degree at Bumfuq State U will cost you (or your parents) 100 large, and after interest, probably closer to a quarter mil.

There are a lot of times that I think that starting undergraduate school was the largest mistake I've ever made. I should have stayed sailing. Gone into Deck, as Radio Officer'ing was ending. I think I could have pulled some strings with the union and got into unlicensed deck and worked my way up the Hawse Pipe. Oh well, at least I can treat my family, friends, dogs and cats, so it wasn't a total waste of 10 years of my life. And in another year or two, God willing, MY STUDENT LOANS WILL BE PAID OFF. YEAH!! berkeley YOU BANKING SYSTEM.

In reply to Dr. Hess:
Did you enroll at EveRy University?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T24DPU-hkJM

I was just at a party the other night where at least a dozen of those people had gone to the same two year technical training school for cabinet making, of all things, and most of them were finding gainful employment.

In reply to Dr. Hess:

We could always put more money INTO the education system vs. take it out. Seems as if the top reason tuition keep rising is because funding keeps getting taken away..... seems pretty stupid to me.

BTW, if you think going into undergrad was that big of a mistake, quit your job. You can still do that.

My undergrad was certainly worth it. Go to a decent school and get a degree in something like chemistry, engineering, materials science, etc. For what it's worth, engineering isn't as hard as most people try to make it sound. Most engineering/science programs have weeder math, etc courses that can be a struggle. Once through the weeder classes, everything will click together.

alfadriver wrote: In reply to Dr. Hess: We could always put more money INTO the education system vs. take it out. Seems as if the top reason tuition keep rising is because funding keeps getting taken away..... seems pretty stupid to me.

I went to a private lib arts college (not heavily dependent on public funding) and tuition went up $1,600 per year while I was there - and my freshman year it was $34k.

Took me 5 years of working in the newspaper industry to figure out the boat was sinking. Moved into digital marketing - did my time in a E36 M3show startup for 3 years and now I'm actually in the money. Digital marketing is always expanding, but the money is in PPC advertising - so get good at math and spreadsheets.

I just love people who borrow money and then get all pissed off about having to pay interest on it and claim that the banking industry is evil.

You wanted something you didn't have the resources to pay for. You had to borrow those resources from someone else. That's not the berking bank's fault.

We can argue pros and cons of whether the education was worth it or not. That's a valid discussion. But pissing and moaning about the very idea of loans is pointless at best and stupid at worst. To mix a metaphor, if you can't do the time, don't sign on the line.

In reply to DaveEstey:

nothing wrong with the public state schools.

The school I got my BS in had marketing, journalism, business, law, engineering, ag, etc etc- all of the accredited.

Back in the mid 80's, my tuition went from $500 to $650 at the University of Idaho. Gotta love in-state tuition. When I went to Michigan, the $15k out of state tuition was paid for by them.

alfadriver wrote: In reply to DaveEstey: nothing wrong with the public state schools. The school I got my BS in had marketing, journalism, business, law, engineering, ag, etc etc- all of the accredited. Back in the mid 80's, my tuition went from $500 to $650 at the University of Idaho. Gotta love in-state tuition. When I went to Michigan, the $15k out of state tuition was paid for by them.

Like full-credit tuition? Take 18 credits of 4-5 classes tuition? Was only $1,114 dollars when adjusted for inflation? JEEEZ

Plus one for Engineering. Civil Engineering in particular. Our biggest problem if finding people that are qualified to hire. I have two positions open here that are next to impossible to fill. My boss said it took 2 years to fill my position. I recommend graduate school for civil engineers to really hone in a specialty. Then, you're very valuable.

Wife has her undergrad in marketing. She worked retail for 6 years until our daughter was born. Now she's stay at home mom. I say have your job picked out before you attend school.

rotard wrote: My undergrad was certainly worth it. Go to a decent school and get a degree in something like chemistry, engineering, materials science, etc. For what it's worth, engineering isn't as hard as most people try to make it sound. Most engineering/science programs have weeder math, etc courses that can be a struggle. Once through the weeder classes, everything will click together.

Disagree. It also seems to vary a lot based on college/university and wether we are talking associates or bachelor. A bachelor degree in engineering, as stated, is hard. Hard being that most people can't do it. If it was easy, everyone would.

I understand the desire to get an engineering degree, but after trying (and failing), I don't think I'd go back again. 4 years of your life to be swamped with hard work and no free time. Pass.

Everyone I've talked to (surprise, everyone I know being an engineer since those were the people I hung out with and went to school with) said the same thing; it never got easier, it just became "normal". And looking at it from an outsiders perspective, it sucked.

My viewpoint is tainted a bit by the fact I had actually done things with my life by the time I was 18, not just hang out with friends, screw around in the summer and eat doritos while doing ok in high school. I had experienced life as an adult, which is millions of time more awesome than life as a broke-ass college student.

I went to community college and got my associates for probably $8,500 and I graduated in 07 if my memory serves me correctly. I was able to pay it off and I am going towards my bachelors piece by piece (mrs. dx works in the collegiate field and I can go for very very cheap). I have had friends tell me that if they were able to do it over, they would've gone to community college for a couple years and then transfer to a bigger school. Not sure if any of this helps you but just my insight on it. YMMV

PHeller wrote: Random semi-related question: Can folks who are in their late 20's early 30's start a career in paid Firefighting?

I know several who have.

My in-state tuition at Towson University in Maryland was something like $4000 per semester. Was it worth it? Maybe... I certainly do not work in my field of study (art major and I'm a salesman) but that wasn't really the goal. I've started creating a portfolio of my own work and exploring the arts on my own outside of work and I don't think I'd have the discipline to do that without the training I received in school.

A degree makes me more employable, but after trying to finish just to get a job for 8 years I changed course and finally finished a degree that I wanted to pursue for my own personal growth and that has paid dividends.

Duke wrote:

Kenny_McCormic wrote: In reply to Dr. Hess: Its more than just the loans, the whole thing is a racket top to bottom.

Interesting take, I suppose, though I disagree to a large extent. Those who are calling college loans a scam do (of course) realize that college costs didn't really begin to seriously rise until after the government began subsidizing student loans, right? RIGHT?

I'm fully aware of that and place plenty of blame in that direction, including how its not dischargeable via bankruptcy. However, that does not make it any less scummy that the entirety of higher education took it as an excuse to inflate the hell out of everything to effectively rip off the government.

In reply to Kenny_McCormic:

C'mon man, it's just another lesson- it's a very effective way of teaching us how everyone is just out for themselves and will berkeley you however they can for that extra dollar.